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I agree with the title of the subject... PLUG IT IN!! You can't get along without block heaters up here in Canada.

It is my understanding that most freeze plug style block heaters are only about 150 Watts, but even 400 Watts is too low for my area of the world. :roll:

I am looking to install the heater describes/photographed in the following link, because they can be purchased with outputs of up to 1500 Watts...

http://answers.canadiantire.ca/answers/9045/product/0303294P/zerostart-zerostart-tank-circulation-engine-heater-questions-answers/questions.htm

The problem is that these things must be mounted upright, and they are fairly large; about 7.5 inches by 4.0 inches. It will be difficult to find a suitable spot in the engine bay, so I figure I can find an inside cavity in an ARB Bull Bar Bumper that is large enough to to the job... in any event that is the excuse I am giving my wife for purchasing the bumper; hee, hee!! :mrgreen:

Anyone who has measurement specifications for the KJ Liberty ARB Bull Bar please send them to me, or if you have a Bull Bar please measure the inside cavities for a suitable location for the above described heater. Thank you.

Jeff

Updates regarding the CRD engine thermostat project are in the following link...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74131

We are very close to producing a few prototypes, so those of you who have been waiting for a new design thermostat you should not have to wait much longer.

Author:	MRausch82 [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Plug it in!
The temps here in N. Central PA have dropped to about 0 for a low... and I forgot to plug in the Jeep last night. I went out to clear some snow and move cars around and the CRD started right up, but only ran on one or two cylinders for a minute or two, and fogged my yard with smoke. It finally caught the other cylinders and ran alright. I let it run for about 15 minutes. I put it back and plugged it in. I have the new 5v updated Bosch plugs. I don't recall this issue with the original ceramics. My point is that plugging a diesel in during the extreme cold is always a good idea, not just from a starting standpoint, but it is better for the engine. Anyone else have experience with the new "updated" Bosch (Mopar) plug kit? Not the Italian drop in 7v units, but the 5v factory ones...

Author:	CRD05il [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
That happens mine when I don't plug it in and I have the original plugs in it.

Author:	Dave01 [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Here in central NH it was -15 F last night. I usually just plug in for a few hours in the morning on a timer, but left it plugged in all night. Starts easily. Does anyone know what the wattage of the block heater is? Curious how much it draws.

Author:	MRausch82 [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Dave01 wrote: Here in central NH it was -15 F last night. I usually just plug in for a few hours in the morning on a timer, but left it plugged in all night. Starts easily. Does anyone know what the wattage of the block heater is? Curious how much it draws. Probably a lot. Maybe 1500-2000 watts. I am not certain. I plugged mine in last night after it didn't want to start again at -1. It took several minutes of trying for it to finally go. Funny, as I was pumping the accelerator while cranking the final time, it caught and started as normal. Not sure why that would have anything to do with it on a electronic throttle diesel... It's been plugged in all night. I am about to go out and see what happens.

Author:	papaindigo [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Draws less than you think. GDE indicates 400w (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77892&p=817144#p817144) which is in line with what I remember from prior discussion about block heater power usage and timer ratings. A quick check online for "universal" (freeze plug type) block heaters indicates that's about right too.

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Author:	Dave01 [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Good to know. My '97 Suburban block heater drew 600 watts so makes sense that the CRD would be a bit less. So, 400 watts for 8 hours would cost around 50 cents, am I right?

Author:	flman [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
MRausch82 do you have a tune in your CRD, all of mine fire right up in all temps?

Author:	papaindigo [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Cost depends on your cost of power usually expressed as $X.XX per KWhr so and 400W is 0.4 KW so if I've got it right 0.4 x per KWhr cost x how long the power is on = your cost to run the block heater. Prior chat indicates 2-3 hours on a timer is enough although I suspect more would be better in temps well below 0F

Author:	Dave01 [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Yes, I think you're right. I just in my head did 400 watts x 8 hours = 3200 watts = 3.2 KW. Without looking at my bill I'm guessing 15 cents a KW so just under 50 cents. I normally have it on a timer, turn it on 3-4 hours before I leave. Right now my daughter is home from school and driving it, so not a set schedule. In this cold I've just told her to plug it in when not using it.

Author:	MRausch82 [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
flman wrote: MRausch82 do you have a tune in your CRD, all of mine fire right up in all temps? Nope. I have the ORM, that's about it. I never had an issue with the original ceramics. That said, I don't think I ever started it dead cold below about 15 degrees without a block heater before. I kind of wanted to see what would happen. Plugged in, it is fine. About about 10 degrees, it will start easily, the colder below 10, the harder it becomes, at least the two times I tried. Not worried about it. I rarely, if ever, have to start it dead cold below those temps at a place where I cannot plug it in. After this winter, it won't be an issue for me anyhow...

Author:	TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
I agree with the title of the subject... PLUG IT IN!! You can't get along without block heaters up here in Canada. It is my understanding that most freeze plug style block heaters are only about 150 Watts, but even 400 Watts is too low for my area of the world. I am looking to install the heater describes/photographed in the following link, because they can be purchased with outputs of up to 1500 Watts... http://answers.canadiantire.ca/answers/9045/product/0303294P/zerostart-zerostart-tank-circulation-engine-heater-questions-answers/questions.htm The problem is that these things must be mounted upright, and they are fairly large; about 7.5 inches by 4.0 inches. It will be difficult to find a suitable spot in the engine bay, so I figure I can find an inside cavity in an ARB Bull Bar Bumper that is large enough to to the job... in any event that is the excuse I am giving my wife for purchasing the bumper; hee, hee!! Anyone who has measurement specifications for the KJ Liberty ARB Bull Bar please send them to me, or if you have a Bull Bar please measure the inside cavities for a suitable location for the above described heater. Thank you. Jeff Updates regarding the CRD engine thermostat project are in the following link... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74131 We are very close to producing a few prototypes, so those of you who have been waiting for a new design thermostat you should not have to wait much longer.

Author:	ColoradoCRD [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
I have owned and operated my 2005 CRD without the benefit of a garage since it was new. I live at 7300 feet elevation so night time temperatures are consistently cold. I use my heater daily from November to April. I can offer some insight from my experience: I have confirmed using a load meter that electrical consumption is 400 watts. I use a timer and usually set it to operate for 1 to 1 /1/2 hours before I expect to start the engine the next day. Beyond 1 1/2 hours you will experience diminishing returns and I consider it a waste. Perhaps if I was in -30F or worse I would change my view on this. If you forget to plug in the night before, I experience noticeable improvement at start up in the morning when plugged in for only 20 minutes. Not ideal, but improved. I have never felt a need to plug in during the day between periods of engine operations. The engine is just too heavy with significant thermal mass to cool down excessively during the day between operations. I have changed out the plug once due to wire fatigue caused by flopping in the wind, combined with occasional instances of additional stress caused by driving off with the cord/timer still plugged. I have 132k on the Jeep and changed the failing original glow plugs at 100k. I find the new plugs perform the same as the old plugs when they were new.

Author:	mass-hole [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Dave01 wrote: Here in central NH it was -15 F last night. I usually just plug in for a few hours in the morning on a timer, but left it plugged in all night. Starts easily. Does anyone know what the wattage of the block heater is? Curious how much it draws. I also checked mine on a meter and was using ~385 Watts.

Author:	mass-hole [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote: I agree with the title of the subject... PLUG IT IN!! You can't get along without block heaters up here in Canada. It is my understanding that most freeze plug style block heaters are only about 150 Watts, but even 400 Watts is too low for my area of the world. I am looking to install the heater describes/photographed in the following link, because they can be purchased with outputs of up to 1500 Watts... http://answers.canadiantire.ca/answers/9045/product/0303294P/zerostart-zerostart-tank-circulation-engine-heater-questions-answers/questions.htm The problem is that these things must be mounted upright, and they are fairly large; about 7.5 inches by 4.0 inches. It will be difficult to find a suitable spot in the engine bay, so I figure I can find an inside cavity in an ARB Bull Bar Bumper that is large enough to to the job... in any event that is the excuse I am giving my wife for purchasing the bumper; hee, hee!! Anyone who has measurement specifications for the KJ Liberty ARB Bull Bar please send them to me, or if you have a Bull Bar please measure the inside cavities for a suitable location for the above described heater. Thank you. Jeff Updates regarding the CRD engine thermostat project are in the following link... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74131 We are very close to producing a few prototypes, so those of you who have been waiting for a new design thermostat you should not have to wait much longer. Where does the attached heater circulate coolant. I thought when the thermostat was cold it was also shut, how would this flow coolant through the block with this in mind? do you put T-fittings in somewhere and bypass the thermostat housing?

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Author:	papaindigo [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
No coolant circulation as in flow of coolant. Rather the general temp of the coolant is increased by conduction (I think that's the right term not convection) from the point where a source of heat is applied to the coolant. That temp is also transfered to the block and I presume somewhat to the oil in the drain pan. I know if I leave it plugged in for a while and open the hood to unplug it that the engine bay is nice and warm.

Author:	Dave01 [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
I think it does work by convection. If it's what I think it is it should be plumbed separate from the regular circulation hoses so even with the stat closed it circulates engine coolant, though I don't believe it heats the coolant in the radiator. I haven't owned one, but have read about them and am pretty sure conduction won't work well with coolant, needs to be circulated by convection.

Author:	joelukex4 [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
These heaters are no different than the heater coils in an electric water heater. They typically replace the freeze plug in an engine block and heat by convection. As the fluid heats it rises in the block as it does in a water heater. The cold antifreeze falls and therefore circulates throughout the block warming the fluid evenly ultimately warming the metal through conduction.

Author:	Dave01 [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Guys, cut and paste the link into a browser and take a look yourself. It's not a regular block heater coil, it's an external unit that gets plumbed to the engine with incoming and outgoing hoses.

Author:	CATCRD [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Plug it in!
Dave01 wrote: Guys, cut and paste the link into a browser and take a look yourself. It's not a regular block heater coil, it's an external unit that gets plumbed to the engine with incoming and outgoing hoses. They're talking about the OEM one.