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| Has anyone run black diesel? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78086 |
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| Author: | MassiveNine [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Has anyone run black diesel? |
I'm talking about diesel that's refined from used motor oil. I'm at a place where I'm practically bathing in used motor oil so I want to see if I can put it to good use. I've found a couple sites that sells small converters for 3-400 bucks that does like 5 gallons at a time. I was thinking like 80% pump diesel and 20% black diesel. |
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| Author: | flman [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
MassiveNine wrote: I'm talking about diesel that's refined from used motor oil. I'm at a place where I'm practically bathing in used motor oil so I want to see if I can put it to good use. I've found a couple sites that sells small converters for 3-400 bucks that does like 5 gallons at a time. I was thinking like 80% pump diesel and 20% black diesel. Why not just throw a gallon of drain oil in with each fillup? Put in a good prefilter and forget about spending 3 or 400 bucks? |
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| Author: | geordi [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
I can hear your sarcasm dripping out of my screen right now... But others might not be as astute. Remember that can-shaped thing stuck to the side of your oil pan? It has a purpose - Not restricting the flow enough to starve the engine of lubrication. It does that by NOT filtering particles out of the oil that are small enough to still do massive damage to the injectors and fuel pump which have much tighter tolerances. If you want to pump microscopic diamonds (carbon soot!) into your fuel pump... Be my guest. But be prepared to replace your high pressure fuel pump and the injectors soon after. You will be scouring out their interiors with that abrasiveness. There are things that modern diesels just can't deal with, that a 1983 Mercedes 300TD injection pump wouldn't even blink at. Those old engines could almost be run on oily rags and they wouldn't mind. The CRD is a bit more discriminating. Don't do it. You'll be sorry. Now if you have some more information about what this "converter" actually does to the sump juice... I'll take a look and give you an honest opinion. But I'm not confident that it would be "refined" enough to be really usable. |
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| Author: | dkenny [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
Run some in my cummins..but its been filtered to 1micron.. better the fuel filter on the jeep.. would i run it in a jeep..no at 20% maybe upto 5%. more like 2% max. the problem is more than just what's in the oil..like soot.. what happens when it burns and leaves the ash behind? ever try to run UMO in the 2 cycle instead of 2 cycle oil...its not pretty. if the setup is a 'true' refinerary, then to distiles the diesel from the oil..ie way more than just a filtering setup.. in the end is it worth it..that's up to you..consider the cost of a CP3 and injectors. just some thoughts -dkenny |
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| Author: | geordi [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
You bought mine and (I'm guessing) replaced a CRD cp3 pump in your CRD, right dkenny? How much of a PITA was that job? That labor also has to factor in to any value for this project. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
dkenny wrote: Run some in my cummins..but its been filtered to 1micron.. better the fuel filter on the jeep.. would i run it in a jeep..no at 20% maybe upto 5%. more like 2% max. the problem is more than just what's in the oil..like soot.. what happens when it burns and leaves the ash behind? ever try to run UMO in the 2 cycle instead of 2 cycle oil...its not pretty. if the setup is a 'true' refinerary, then to distiles the diesel from the oil..ie way more than just a filtering setup.. in the end is it worth it..that's up to you..consider the cost of a CP3 and injectors. just some thoughts -dkenny So even with 1 micron you think it would be a problem? I have heard the worshipers of 2 stroke oil in the fuel say low ash, where is the ash a problem, in the cat? BTW, I did mention the OP get a better filter before he tried any of this. |
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| Author: | MassiveNine [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
I appreciate the replies and assure you there was no sarcasm. http://oiltofuel.com/compact-black-diesel-processor.html There is the link to what I've found. So basically it's run through 4 filters, a 100 micron through a 10 micron then through a 1 micron and into a dewatering filter. I'm not too familiar with the CRD in these jeeps so this was an honest question. Diesel is getting close to 4 a gallon up here in the mountains and I drive like 80-100 miles a day so you can see why I'm trying to save a few bucks. Obviously if it's really going to do that much damage in the long run I won't run it, I'm just trying to explore all of my options at this point. |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
Looks like the main part is the 1MICRON FILTER!  Except for the water, I could not see why an improved filter on the CRD with black oil would not work? Most oils now a days with the DPF are low ash any ways. I am just wondering what the payback would be on that, you would almost need more drain oil then you can get out of your own vehicles? |
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| Author: | MassiveNine [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
flman wrote: Looks like the main part is the 1MICRON FILTER! Except for the water, I could not see why an improved filter on the CRD with black oil would not work? Most oils now a days with the DPF are low ash any ways. I am just wondering what the payback would be on that, you would almost need more drain oil then you can get out of your own vehicles? Like I told you I am practically swimming in used oil. While I'm not above installing a better filter on the jeep, I would like the peace of mind that it's being refined BEFORE it touches my fuel system, like at all. Hell I'd even do both, refine it and put a 1 micron on the jeep. Double filtered. |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
MassiveNine wrote: flman wrote: Looks like the main part is the 1MICRON FILTER! Except for the water, I could not see why an improved filter on the CRD with black oil would not work? Most oils now a days with the DPF are low ash any ways. I am just wondering what the payback would be on that, you would almost need more drain oil then you can get out of your own vehicles? Like I told you I am practically swimming in used oil. While I'm not above installing a better filter on the jeep, I would like the peace of mind that it's being refined BEFORE it touches my fuel system, like at all. Hell I'd even do both, refine it and put a 1 micron on the jeep. Double filtered. Go for it, and let us know how it works? Looks like you needs 75 gallons of black oil to break even, maybe less if it increases the fuel mileage over regular diesel? |
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| Author: | MassiveNine [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
flman wrote: MassiveNine wrote: flman wrote: Looks like the main part is the 1MICRON FILTER! Except for the water, I could not see why an improved filter on the CRD with black oil would not work? Most oils now a days with the DPF are low ash any ways. I am just wondering what the payback would be on that, you would almost need more drain oil then you can get out of your own vehicles? Like I told you I am practically swimming in used oil. While I'm not above installing a better filter on the jeep, I would like the peace of mind that it's being refined BEFORE it touches my fuel system, like at all. Hell I'd even do both, refine it and put a 1 micron on the jeep. Double filtered. Go for it, and let us know how it works? Looks like you needs 75 gallons of black oil to break even, maybe less if it increases the fuel mileage over regular diesel? Who knows about the increase. So from your posts if it were you, you'd just put a 1 micron filter on the jeep and throw a gallon of oil into the tank with every fill up? I see your sig, do any of your jeeps have better filters on them? |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
MassiveNine wrote: Who knows about the increase. So from your posts if it were you, you'd just put a 1 micron filter on the jeep and throw a gallon of oil into the tank with every fill up? I see your sig, do any of your jeeps have better filters on them? I used to own a Cummins with the 1 micron filter, you would definitely need a lift pump to push the fuel through it. I would probably put it down stream of the stock filter. I am only using the stock filters on my CRD, I do not plan on putting black diesel in them. Looks like you can find them on Ebay, but others have warned of dumping black diesel into your CRD. So I am not endorsing this, I am only thinking out loud. But I might consider doing it disregarding the nay sayers at my own risk? I am pretty sure the factory filter is 5 or 10 Micron, so a lot more crud then black diesel would allow? And it would most likely lubricate the pump as long as nothing abrasive could get through the filters? http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=cu ... g&_sacat=0 |
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| Author: | geordi [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
Massivenine: sorry for the misinterpretation. I was thinking that Flman's first post was the sarcasm, not yours. I got the definite flavor of an honest question from you. Text sometimes misses some nuance, and that was my fault for not being clearer. Having a ready supply of waste oil to pull from is certainly the first requirement. A 1 micron filter will certainly reduce the potential problems that might make it to your engine. I don't know (and I don't think anyone really could) what the ultimate results on the CRD will be. I think a 1 micron will be too small for the filter IN the CRD, unless you have a lift pump at the tank to push the fuel through the filter. The next problem I see as a possibility is the viscosity of the oil. Waste oil is (any oil) is thicker than diesel fuel, so it is harder to pump. Whether the oil will thin out sufficiently in the diesel mix, is the question. I suspect it probably will, but you will be experimenting in that respect. I wouldn't suggest more than about a 60/40 mix of diesel to oil, maybe 80/20 in the winter. You don't want it to gel on you. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD |
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| Author: | diesel_guy86 [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
a couple other notes, magnets can be used to capture small metal particles. sure the filter will most likely catch it also, but if you can rig something up that can be opened quick, cleaned, and closed, it help your filter from plugging up as fast. also a centrifuge works great, but takes some time to do. i think theres a kit for duramaxs, it uses engine oil pressure to spin the centrifuge. something could be rigged at your filtering station to use this. |
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| Author: | MassiveNine [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
Could you elaborate a bit more on the centrifuge system? It uses magnets to clean oil? |
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| Author: | flman [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
I used to dump 4 gallons of my old waste oil in the 275 gallon tank with fuel oil, some times this tank might be as low as 1/4 full. This was for my home heating system with an old boiler, I never had a viscosity problem and the fuel oil kept it very thin. I had to quit this when I put in a high efficiency boiler with a .40 nozzle. But I kind of doubt 1 gallon in a tank of 15 is going to thicken the oil all that much? Now you guys got me wanting to try the Cummins filter and the magnet? 
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| Author: | dkenny [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
flman, so worst case was 4 gallons of WMO in 80ish gallon for heating oil.. and then you have problems with it going in the 0.4 nozzle..any idea of the diameter of a 0.4 nozzle? as in micron.. of the WMO being thicker than oil..some what but not much for gelling?? no more than diesel..remember the oil has to flow too..otherwise forget starting.. forget finding a 1 micron filter for the jeep..they're not made..special bag type filters are 1 micron and are the filter 100% at 1 micron? most likely not.. -dkenny |
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| Author: | racertracer [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
Has anyone ever tried using a centrifuge to clean the black oil? |
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| Author: | flman [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
dkenny wrote: flman, forget finding a 1 micron filter for the jeep..they're not made..special bag type filters are 1 micron and are the filter 100% at 1 micron? most likely not.. -dkenny Cummins has a 1 micron cartridge. Oil burner pushes 100 to 175 PSI, Common Rail 23000 PSI. |
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| Author: | diesel_guy86 [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone run black diesel? |
Quote: Could you elaborate a bit more on the centrifuge system? It uses magnets to clean oil? I was saying you could use magnets on a steel pan or whatever to help pick out any metal flakes in the oil. this would help keep the filter cleaner, longer. the centrifuge is basically a rotor that spins super fast. the high g-forces throws the heavy solids outwards while the ligther oil stays on the inside and flows out. the benefit is that theres nothing to replace with this, you take off the cover, remove the cake of material that was filtered out, and use again. so say you brought a 55gal drum of used motor oil home. youd dump it into a tank, at the bottom of the tank you could have magnets that would attract any metal particles that could damage your pumping system. from there it could flow into the centrifuge that would filter out most of the impurities. then it could go into a 1 micron filter or whatever to filter out the rest of the small stuff. anything smaller than 1 micron i dont think would be a problem. the diesel fuel doesnt even get filtered that fine. |
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