Problems starting CRD in cold weather below 10 degrees F.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:13 pm

Do YOU want to get started in the morning when it is that cold?

Can you really blame your CRD for grumbling then? Yet another example of why these are Italian Mistresses...

With what JeepDan just posted, I'm still leaning toward this being a fuel-related problem and not so much a glow plug related problem. The fuel terminals aren't going to increase the amount of kerosene in the diesel just because it is a cold snap... They winterize to whatever minimum standard there might be. If we as owners want a "My CRD starts up like it is 40 degrees out" experience when it is zero or below... Then WE have to make our fuel more volatile to allow even a cold engine to flow and fire the stuff.

Yes, the bulk of the diesel in your tank might not be totally gelled... But that doesn't mean that inside tiny passages, it isn't cloudy or thick. This isn't alcohol we are running, it turns to syrup in super-super-cold unless something is done to it.

flman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:19 pm

geordi wrote:

Do YOU want to get started in the morning when it is that cold?

Can you really blame your CRD for grumbling then? Yet another example of why these are Italian Mistresses...

With what JeepDan just posted, I'm still leaning toward this being a fuel-related problem and not so much a glow plug related problem. The fuel terminals aren't going to increase the amount of kerosene in the diesel just because it is a cold snap... They winterize to whatever minimum standard there might be. If we as owners want a "My CRD starts up like it is 40 degrees out" experience when it is zero or below... Then WE have to make our fuel more volatile to allow even a cold engine to flow and fire the stuff.

Yes, the bulk of the diesel in your tank might not be totally gelled... But that doesn't mean that inside tiny passages, it isn't cloudy or thick. This isn't alcohol we are running, it turns to syrup in super-super-cold unless something is done to it.

I guess the fact I had 2 diesels gell this week pretty much substantiates what Geordi says. :wink:

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

Our winter blend in MN is rated at -40F

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:43 pm

Fuel quality may certainly pay a role, but I do not think that is the case with mine. Witht he ceramic GP's, it was fine, with the steel 5v plugs, it is not. I get a LOT of smoke (poor combustion, probably due to poor glow plug control) until it wakes up. I know with the older VW's, if a plug was bad, it acted the very same way. If you did not wait long enough for the plugs to heat up, it did the same thing. I am still leaning towards needing a longer glow time. I read another memeber recently posted that the plugs are not getting "red hot." That is not normal operation. Just my :2cents:

kjjet · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:02 pm

Are you guys having starting issues with the Jeep plugged in? With mine plugged in at -6 it started this AM like it was warm out.

I always plug mine in under 30 deg F. Other than having plug end problems, it starts great.

Good luck
KJJET

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:17 am

When mine is plugged in, it starts as you described... like it would start on a Spring day. I sometimes forget, or am unable to plug it in for one reason or another though. It will be plugged in tonight though...

flman · **Posted:** Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:46 am

weeks101 wrote:

Our winter blend in MN is rated at -40F

So, do you use antigel, or not?

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

flman wrote:

weeks101 wrote:

Our winter blend in MN is rated at -40F

So, do you use antigel, or not?

Nope. No additives.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:09 am

Forgot to plug my CRD in again last night. It was hell to get started this AM at 0ºF. When I finally got it to stay running, the yard was full of smoke. I did not get the picture right away, so this picture does not do it justice. Here is what I saw...

jeepdan · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:22 pm

Mike, you don't need to smoke out mosquitoes this time of year, not in PA anyways :jester:

Seriously, mine has never smoked liked that, and yours shouldn't either.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:40 pm

jeepdan wrote:

Mike, you don't need to smoke out mosquitoes this time of year, not in PA anyways :jester:

Seriously, mine has never smoked liked that, and yours shouldn't either.

Nope. My CRD never did either prior to replacing the glow plugs. I'm hearing similar stories from other people with CRDs and customers of mine with CRDs that have had their glow plugs updated. The original ceramics never did that. Very disappointed with the new glow plugs. Again, I think the problem is not necessarily with the glow plug but with the ECM programming itself. And no, no mosquitoes this time of year here, haha... That's the one and only good thing about winter up here!

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:12 pm

Poor combustion, obviously. I do have to say, my CRD smoked a fair bit when super cold too, for about the first 5-7 seconds or so. Then it smoothed out and the smoke stopped.

I realize it sounds dreadful when it is doing that, but I don't think it is really doing anything bad to itself. It just doesn't sound like normal combustion. Lots of stumbling and choking, right? There aren't any metal chewing sounds, which would obviously be really bad.

My TDI has done that once or twice too, but I'm not certain which plugs I have. I know I don't have a block heater or coolant heater in the TDI (I might have to do something about that eventually).

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:37 pm

geordi wrote:

Poor combustion, obviously. I do have to say, my CRD smoked a fair bit when super cold too, for about the first 5-7 seconds or so. Then it smoothed out and the smoke stopped.

I realize it sounds dreadful when it is doing that, but I don't think it is really doing anything bad to itself. It just doesn't sound like normal combustion. Lots of stumbling and choking, right? There aren't any metal chewing sounds, which would obviously be really bad.

My TDI has done that once or twice too, but I'm not certain which plugs I have. I know I don't have a block heater or coolant heater in the TDI (I might have to do something about that eventually).

Exactly. I also don't think it hurts anything, but it is not the way it used to start. It would always cough a little and put a puff of smoke out, but nothing like this: hard starting and farting and burping for about 30 seconds at least. Plugged in, it is fine. My '05 TDI wagon didn't have a block heater. I always meant to put a coolant heater on that since a block heater was not available. Ended up trading it in back in 2009. Wish I still had that thing with all of the driving I do... Hopefully my '90 Jetta diesel project won't be a major one, and I can run that as a primary vehicle. I just bought a battery for it yesterday, and hopefully I can see if it will start this weekend if I get a chance. It's has been sitting a few years.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:33 pm

And now I'm back to thinking it is something external and not just glow plugs.

30 seconds? Really? The heat of combustion is obviously quite high. Even just running a cold engine for 5 seconds to prove that the timing belt works, puts a noticeable warmth into the front of the block. I can't imagine that the cylinder walls are still frosty. 30 seconds, the cylinders have turned over 500 times and fired around 125 times each. That is a lot of coughing and farting to not smooth out.

Meanwhile, the fuel coming into the cylinders has to come through the cold rail, the cold HP lines, the cold fuel pump... I dunno. I don't see how just a change in plugs caused that difference.

flman · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:40 pm

geordi wrote:

And now I'm back to thinking it is something external and not just glow plugs.

30 seconds? Really? The heat of combustion is obviously quite high. Even just running a cold engine for 5 seconds to prove that the timing belt works, puts a noticeable warmth into the front of the block. I can't imagine that the cylinder walls are still frosty. 30 seconds, the cylinders have turned over 500 times and fired around 125 times each. That is a lot of coughing and farting to not smooth out.

Meanwhile, the fuel coming into the cylinders has to come through the cold rail, the cold HP lines, the cold fuel pump... I dunno. I don't see how just a change in plugs caused that difference.

Mine with the Etecnos does the same thing, they suck! I am going to put in the ceramics back in and write it off as another bad experiment.

If you want a truly reliable CRD, get the GDE tune, follow the maintenance and do not follow much of the advice given is this forum. It is only good for troubleshooting and if it is not broke keep fixing it until it is. :5SHOTS:

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:34 pm

I can also support the fact the etechnos are not as good in cold weather. My jeep is always garaged in 35-45 degrees, starts a bid harder than with ceramics. When parked for 10 hours, when I go to the office, it starts after about 3-6 seconds of cranking, on 20-ish degrees, with ceramics on close to 0, took 1-2 seconds. Didn't want to torture the engine, but I almost parked in the driveway to see how/if would start in those - 30 with windchill weather we had here in sunny Cleveland... A friend with a Mercedes Diesel had issues starting it too, think that night we had about - 40, I bet the diesel gelled. Still don't regret having etechnos, I have more peace of mind with them. I wonder if an ecu update to keep the plugs turned on more/or warmer would help and not burn them.

ics crd · **Joined:** Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:23 pm **Posts:** 3

I have my CRD for more than 7 years, bought it new in 2006. I've never, never had problems starting no matter how cold it got. I was really proud of that. Nothing changed on my car but the glow plugs, new Etecnos. Now the check engine light is on, got the code and I'm assuming that one or more glow plugs are already dead, and it's very hard to start even in 20 degr weather.
Does anyone know if I can buy ceramic glow plugs from anywhere? I'll change back to ceramics in a heartbeat.

dthdcrd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:15 am

It's my understanding it is the plugs. I have the original ceramic. Never plugged in never a problem.. I was thinking of replacing them, Keith and another experienced mechanic told me to check them out, if they look ok leave them in. The new ones suck. That's the message I got. I know it is supposedly riskier with the ceramics but hey I'll keep a watchful eye for the check engine light and remove right away if necessary.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:53 pm

I'm kinda on the fence with this delimma.
I worry about my ceramics with 148,000 miles on them in CRD #1 every day.
But' I'm not ready to throw away the three good ceramics that I took out of my other CRD, #2
I may save, and very carefully (like handling nitro glycerin) use them to replace any ceramics that go bad in CRD #1 :juggle:

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:43 pm

jeepdan wrote:

I'm kinda on the fence with this delimma.
I worry about my ceramics with 148,000 miles on them in CRD #1 every day.
But' I'm not ready to throw away the three good ceramics that I took out of my other CRD, #2
I may save, and very carefully (like handling nitro glycerin) use them to replace any ceramics that go bad in CRD #1 :juggle:

I saved mine and had to use one ceramic to install temperately until i got a new 7v replacement when one went bad.

Problems starting CRD in cold weather below 10 degrees F.

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