Problems starting CRD in cold weather below 10 degrees F.

laplaya · **Posted:** Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:37 am

I have the steel plugs as well and it is hell starting in this cold weather if not plugged in. It was a little better with the ceramics I found. I am not using any additives. I do usually plug it in. I have a remote for my block heater and try to give it at least an hour to warm up before hitting the jeep remote start.
This morning it was not starting by remote, for some reason the GFI on the outdoor plug had kicked off. I went out and did it the old fashioned way and it stalled numerous times before finally CHUGGING to life. Glad I have a good battery and new starter.
Winter can leave now.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:51 am

MRausch82 wrote:

geordi wrote:

Poor combustion, obviously. I do have to say, my CRD smoked a fair bit when super cold too, for about the first 5-7 seconds or so. Then it smoothed out and the smoke stopped.
I realize it sounds dreadful when it is doing that, but I don't think it is really doing anything bad to itself. It just doesn't sound like normal combustion. Lots of stumbling and choking, right? There aren't any metal chewing sounds, which would obviously be really bad.

Exactly. I also don't think it hurts anything, but it is not the way it used to start. It would always cough a little and put a puff of smoke out, but nothing like this: hard starting and farting and burping for about 30 seconds at least. Plugged in, it is fine.

Logged back into LOST for the first time in year because of this issue. The CRD's just aren't starting like they used to. From 06-08 I never even used the engine block heater and never had an issue starting in the cold. It's gotten progressively worse in the past couple years it would fight a cold start in single digits and maybe take an extra crank after sputtering. This morning it took 4 attempts to fire up in the low teens. I still have OEM glow plugs and haven't been at a dealer for years for any "updates". Been using Howes lube this Winter after Powerservice every tank since I bought it new. It's not throwing any codes besides good ol' 0102

Other issue I am having is intermittent engine block heater not working!?!? I plug in the CRD every night between November-March for the last 4 years. Plug it in before bed at 9p-and it's ready to go in the morning 90% of the time. But then it will decide not to work at all for several days in a row. Then after a few days of not working, the block heater with work perfectly for another 7-10 days. Can't figure out why.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:15 am

blake1827 wrote:

Other issue I am having is intermittent engine block heater not working!?!? I plug in the CRD every night between November-March for the last 4 years. Plug it in before bed at 9p-and it's ready to go in the morning 90% of the time. But then it will decide not to work at all for several days in a row. Then after a few days of not working, the block heater with work perfectly for another 7-10 days. Can't figure out why.

The wires in the cord are probably frayed right at the plug. A complete new cord is available at the dealer or NAPA I hear.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:45 pm

My cord looks fine at the plug at least, maybe the issue is at the block... I'll probably try to change it out with a new one next time I'm under there to change the oil. But still a little concerned it seems these Italians don't start like they used to in the cold as they age.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:56 pm

blake1827 wrote:

My cord looks fine at the plug at least, maybe the issue is at the block... I'll probably try to change it out with a new one next time I'm under there to change the oil. But still a little concerned it seems these Italians don't start like they used to in the cold as they age.

I mean the wires are breaking inside the insulation where you can't see. Use a multimeter to measure the resistance between the two flat blades while you flex the neck of the cord. Should be steady around 34 ohms iirc.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:31 pm

CATCRD wrote:

I mean the wires are breaking inside the insulation where you can't see. Use a multimeter to measure the resistance between the two flat blades while you flex the neck of the cord. Should be steady around 34 ohms iirc.

Thanks for the tip, upon further inspection today the wire directly behind the plug is beginning to appear worn. Luckily last night after it dropped to -12F overnight, the block heater did work for the first time in 4 days.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:03 pm

I've seen some of these where the heater cord CRACKLES when you touch it. Imagine how the timing belt and serpentine belts are, if the rubber / vinyl of that cord is that dried out.

Be careful of possible shocks when plugging it in right now, and certainly replace it as soon as you can.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:42 pm

blake1827 wrote:

Logged back into LOST for the first time in year because of this issue. The CRD's just aren't starting like they used to. From 06-08 I never even used the engine block heater and never had an issue starting in the cold. It's gotten progressively worse in the past couple years it would fight a cold start in single digits and maybe take an extra crank after sputtering. This morning it took 4 attempts to fire up in the low teens. I still have OEM glow plugs and haven't been at a dealer for years for any "updates". Been using Howes lube this Winter after Powerservice every tank since I bought it new. It's not throwing any codes besides good ol' 0102

Other issue I am having is intermittent engine block heater not working!?!? I plug in the CRD every night between November-March for the last 4 years. Plug it in before bed at 9p-and it's ready to go in the morning 90% of the time. But then it will decide not to work at all for several days in a row. Then after a few days of not working, the block heater with work perfectly for another 7-10 days. Can't figure out why.

Remember that this is a compression ignition engine. I have a Case backhoe that starts at - 5 degrees F in a couple of cranks with no glow plugs or intake heat at all but it has a high compression ratio. The CRD is lower than many when new, and after a few years, the rockers are worn and the intake is clogged with soot on many. What the effective compression ratio is then I do not know, but I would bet that it's lower than when it was new. I've had the Etechno glow plugs in for a year, and they work fine in 0 degree starts when you turn the key three times before starting, even when it has been soaking in the cold and sitting unplugged for days. I get a little smoke for maybe 10 seconds, and then it smooths out.

flman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:34 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

blake1827 wrote:

Logged back into LOST for the first time in year because of this issue. The CRD's just aren't starting like they used to. From 06-08 I never even used the engine block heater and never had an issue starting in the cold. It's gotten progressively worse in the past couple years it would fight a cold start in single digits and maybe take an extra crank after sputtering. This morning it took 4 attempts to fire up in the low teens. I still have OEM glow plugs and haven't been at a dealer for years for any "updates". Been using Howes lube this Winter after Powerservice every tank since I bought it new. It's not throwing any codes besides good ol' 0102

Other issue I am having is intermittent engine block heater not working!?!? I plug in the CRD every night between November-March for the last 4 years. Plug it in before bed at 9p-and it's ready to go in the morning 90% of the time. But then it will decide not to work at all for several days in a row. Then after a few days of not working, the block heater with work perfectly for another 7-10 days. Can't figure out why.

Remember that this is a compression ignition engine. I have a Case backhoe that starts at - 5 degrees F in a couple of cranks with no glow plugs or intake heat at all but it has a high compression ratio. The CRD is lower than many when new, and after a few years, the rockers are worn and the intake is clogged with soot on many. What the effective compression ratio is then I do not know, but I would bet that it's lower than when it was new. I've had the Etechno glow plugs in for a year, and they work fine in 0 degree starts when you turn the key three times before starting, even when it has been soaking in the cold and sitting unplugged for days. I get a little smoke for maybe 10 seconds, and then it smooths out.

I once had a Polaris Diesel ATV, it had a 19.5:1 compression ratio, and it never gave me any trouble starting, not matter how cold it was, or how many weeks it was not started. It had no glow plug as well.

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 pm

I have had several diesels none had the trouble this engine has had. This is the first one I ever plugged in.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:27 am

geordi wrote:

I've seen some of these where the heater cord CRACKLES when you touch it. Imagine how the timing belt and serpentine belts are, if the rubber / vinyl of that cord is that dried out.

Be careful of possible shocks when plugging it in right now, and certainly replace it as soon as you can.

It maybe good for those with issues to just install a plug/outlet on the car frame so the cord won't ever bend/twist. Mine is all cracked at insulation and I never used it...

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:45 am

I was thinking about that for my CRD, or one of those auto-kickout power ports that ambulances and fire trucks have.

That wouldn't solve the problem of the insulation drying out and failing. If the cord is in just the wrong place, theoretically the body of the car could become energized.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:36 am

geordi wrote:

I've seen some of these where the heater cord CRACKLES when you touch it.....
...Be careful of possible shocks when plugging it in right now, and certainly replace it as soon as you can.

...and don't forget to report any incidence to the NHTSA and your local electrical safety authority. They need reports in order to take action and this is a very real safety hazzard that needs to be addressed.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:47 pm

If my cord shows its age, then I will replace it with a better cord, not whine about it to the Feds.

it is not reasonable to expect wiring to last forever. Admittedly, one would expect such wiring to last longer than 8 years, but it's out of warranty. Contractually, Jeep has no obligation for this, which means that it is ours.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:49 pm

geordi wrote:

I was thinking about that for my CRD, or one of those auto-kickout power ports that ambulances and fire trucks have.

That wouldn't solve the problem of the insulation drying out and failing. If the cord is in just the wrong place, theoretically the body of the car could become energized.

Isn't the plug grounded?

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:55 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

Isn't the plug grounded?

Yes it is.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:22 pm

The plug is grounded, but that ground pin only serves to duplicate the neutral leg. If the neutral fails / is cut, then the ground keeps you safe. But if the hot line insulation cracks right next to a section of the frame or any other grounded metal on the engine, the body of the car will now also potentially be carrying 120v AC. Since the tires are rubber, the energy has nowhere to go until someone touches the body of the car. Now the power goes through YOU to the ground and you get zapped.

Most likely wouldn't kill you, but it would hurt.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:40 pm

If the ground on the CRD plug is grounded to the frame, and the hot leg shorts to the frame, then there is a short. Presumably the GFI breaker would trip. Or are you saying that the frame and body are isolated?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:04 pm

I believe there are 2 different grounds at play here. I don't think the ground pin of the heater cord is connected to the frame or engine block.

The easiest way to test this that I can think of - do an ohm check on a multimeter between that ground pin and the frame or battery negative. If the resistance is anything other than infinite, then the ground pin on the heater cord IS connected to the frame.

If that is the case, then any fraying of the hot leg and contact with the frame would be a dead short and should easily trip a breaker. A GFCI outlet is just a much more sensitive circuit breaker - If it detects any voltage difference (called 'potential') between the neutral and the ground pins, the GFCI trips. A dead short just almost-instantly overheats the main circuit breaker and trips it like any other overload.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:35 pm

kjjet wrote:

I have had several diesels none had the trouble this engine has had. This is the first one I ever plugged in.

I agree, at least in the regards to starting. I have had worn out Volvo diesels that would start in the cold. They smoked like hell, but would start fairly easily. I have been fairly lucky with my CRD. No major troubles, yet. I also don't push it beyond its means, have not tuned it, and don't race it like some do. That said, someday I will get the eco tune. I do not plan to do any kind of hot tune to it...

Problems starting CRD in cold weather below 10 degrees F.

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