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Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78211		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Flying J [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
I was chatting with my friendly parts guy talking about the upcoming timing belt job on my CRD and when I mentioned I had to farm it out due to time, he suggested that I not have the water pump done if I have to pay labor unless there is something wrong with it. It seems to be just fine, but I always considered this a 'maintenance part'.

So what do you think? I have the pump and was going to have the shop do it as well, but if I'm just replacing a good part, and paying to do it, I won't.

How many hours do you think a water pump would/should add to a T-belt job?
Author:  DOC4444 [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
The water pump is a critical part of the timing belt asssmbly. It must be replaced with Graf or OEM. If there is any slop in the pump, your valves will hit the pistons. Do you really want to bet your water pump will last 200K miles?

(If the water pump were driven by the serpentine belt as it is in some motors, all you would have to worry about is overheating from a WP failure.)

DOC
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
There has been a lot of debate on this in the past without IMHO a definitive conclusion. Unfortunately "spinning" things last as long as they last without any predictability other than cheap junk parts, often stating with C or coming from C, don't last as long as quality parts. I've seen water pumps go, new US vehicle, in 15K miles and still be functioning just fine well over 100K miles. Hence I have no personal strong opinion one way or the other. If I still have my 05 at 100K (I'm currently just under 50K miles and not likely to hit 100K for another 10 years) I'll probably do it then for no good reason other that I might as well.

That said if you are all the way in there to do the TB and especially if you plan to loosen the cam sprockets, which is ideal to do, then you might as well pop the back TB cover and do the WP. If so the WP replacement itself is rather simple if you just replace the front 1/2 which is where all the moving parts are located as opposed to pulling the entire pump assembly which is rather difficult due to access to bolts issues.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
Changing the water pump does add some time and additional labor to the timing belt job including pulling the cam gears, all pulleys, and the rear cover to gain access to the front of the water pump to change out the front half.
If miles and time are of any question as to how long it has been since it was last changed, I would never take that kind of risk in the possibility of causing pistons to hit valves and all the damage that could occur from WP failure. :dead:
As others have stated, it would be quite a gamble not to change the water pump while in there doing a TB job and chance the consequences... :2cents:
It is like buying insurance!!! :wink:
Author:  Flying J [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
Sounds good - I'm convinced - it gets replaced as well. thx
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
Flying J wrote:
Sounds good - I'm convinced - it gets replaced as well. thx

That is what I did and what I recommend. Why gamble 6k to save a hundred bucks?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
A timing belt driven WP(or any WP that requires the timing belt to be removed) only adds like .5 hours to the timing belt labor in 99.9% of all vehicles with timing belts that interfere or are driven by the TB.
Author:  kjjet [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
SORRY ..I disagree. The Water pump is designed to go for at least twice as long as a belt. Jeep/ VM dose not even list a time to change it. Water pumps are designed to leak prior to failure.

I am not changing mine until the 2nd belt. If the engine lasts that long.

Good Luck
KJJET
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
kjjet wrote:
SORRY ..I disagree. The Water pump is designed to go for at least twice as long as a belt. Jeep/ VM dose not even list a time to change it. Water pumps are designed to leak prior to failure.

I am not changing mine until the 2nd belt. If the engine lasts that long.

Good Luck
KJJET

Yeah till they almost always start to leak 5k-20k after you do the belt,never fails and I've done hundreds of timing belts and many without the WP but there always back in a couple of months with a leaking WP.The new belt and tensioner places more strain on the old WP and then those seals start leaking.


But hey not my $$$
Author:  kjjet [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
I would bet there are more people who have had leaks with there new pumps than OEM ones. Think of all the posts of people having issues with there new ones. Very little posts on OEM. VM may have done something correct.

Good luck
KJJET
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
kjjet wrote:
I would bet there are more people who have had leaks with there new pumps than OEM ones. Think of all the posts of people having issues with there new ones. Very little posts on OEM. VM may have done something correct.

Good luck
KJJET

Key word is "OEM",almost all are not using OEM waterpumps.
Author:  Hexus [ Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
kjjet wrote:
SORRY ..I disagree. The Water pump is designed to go for at least twice as long as a belt. Jeep/ VM dose not even list a time to change it. Water pumps are designed to leak prior to failure.

I am not changing mine until the 2nd belt. If the engine lasts that long.

Good Luck
KJJET


If the engine doesn't last that long, it'll probably be because of a water pump failure.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
tjkj2002 wrote:
A timing belt driven WP(or any WP that requires the timing belt to be removed) only adds like .5 hours to the timing belt labor in 99.9% of all vehicles with timing belts that interfere or are driven by the TB.
Bit more to this one than that, but still worth doing, even if it is another 2 hours.
Author:  kjjet [ Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt w/o the water pump?
tjkj2002 wrote:
kjjet wrote:
I would bet there are more people who have had leaks with there new pumps than OEM ones. Think of all the posts of people having issues with there new ones. Very little posts on OEM. VM may have done something correct.

Good luck
KJJET

Key word is "OEM",almost all are not using OEM waterpumps.


Correct. It this case the OEM built a good water pump. One that should last 200k or more. So why change it. It will start leaking first. I made a post a long wile back asking if anyone had a OEM water pump failure. I had one out of all the responses without any proof it actually was the issue. Look at the crown pump? Junk. But you people talked them into changing your OEM to the crown only to find out it was junk.

Keep using the OEM water pump. What's next? Changing your High Pressure Fuel Pump?
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