Jeep with air in fuel !!!

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Hi guys seem to have the same problem changed the fuel head to the new version old one was leaking but still got air in the fuel checked my clamps all tight just don't know where to go from here driving me nuts !! Pls if anyone has any suggestions where to look would be much appreciated it's my first diesel and really testing my patients thanks in advance the new fuel head came complete with filter fitted seemed pretty tight is it that I need to tighten it more just didn't want to over tighten it so I left it alone like I said seemed tight

bugnout · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:56 am

You may need to bleed the air out of the fuel head a number of times to get it all out. Before I had the lift pump, I would pump it up until I was getting a solid stream of fluid from the head then close the bleeder and try to crank. If it didn't start, then do it again. Each time I got air out of the head. With a lift pump, that is no longer a problem, just turn the key until i get a solid stream with no bubbles and then close it off.

I highly recommend a lift pump, DC planned it and even included the wiring and fuse for it, then eliminated before it went to market. The CP3 injection pump is supposed to suck the fuel through the filter from the tank, but any air leak from the fuel head all the way back to the cheesy clip on hoses at the fuel tank can let air in and prevent the fuel from flowing. I think the CP3 input module effectiveness at sucking fuel decreases over time. No way to fix it other than pull it and rebuild it. Lift pump is very effective and much cheaper.

Hexus · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:00 pm

Touf1973 wrote:

Hi guys seem to have the same problem changed the fuel head to the new version old one was leaking but still got air in the fuel checked my clamps all tight just don't know where to go from here driving me nuts !! Pls if anyone has any suggestions where to look would be much appreciated it's my first diesel and really testing my patients thanks in advance the new fuel head came complete with filter fitted seemed pretty tight is it that I need to tighten it more just didn't want to over tighten it so I left it alone like I said seemed tight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwGcWi3gE0

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Thanks hexon and bugnout I've bleed it must be over 15 times now when it starts after bleeding it idles nice for about 10 seconds and then I can hear the air the motor starts to idle funny between 750 and 760 keeps going up and down might have to look at fitting the pump I noticed a little fuel under the bleeding nipple could it be a faulty fuel head or be leaking at the nipple I've tightened it right up but a little worried don't want to thread it being a new fuel head another thing was the new fuel head came with the filter fitted seemed pretty tight so I left it alone do you think I need to tighten it up anymore how tight does a filter need to be I was reading somewhere that it needs to be hand tight is that true ?? And if I was to fit the pump would it still be ok under the bonnet or bite the bullet and drop the tank thanks guys I really appreciate the advice because I know doo doo !! And if I fit the pump do I still need to bleed it every couple of days or will that stop the air effecting the motor

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:02 pm

Thoughts:
1. the new filter that comes with the new fuel filter head is on tight enough in my experience (3 units). If anything it's on too tight and if it was leaking a check around the rim with a dry paper towel would tell you. Tightening that filter is just like any other spin on filter; be sure both inner/outer old gaskets are off; coat new gaskets with a bit of diesel; spin on until it bottoms; tighten an additional 1/2 - 3/4 of a turn.
2. to bleed - pump primer until hard; crack bleeder; when air/fuel stops flowing; close bleeder; repeat until no air comes out. Under no circumstances leave the bleeder open while pumping; all that does is slosh air in and out the bleeder. I find 12" or so of clear vinyl tube slipped onto the bleeder and run to a catch can keeps down the mess and gives you the visual you need to be sure all the air is out.
3. that bleeder screw is just like a brake bleeder screw and it's threaded into aluminum. Just snug it down to close don't godzilla or you will strip the threads. When you finish bleeding wipe if dry with paper towels; repump the primer if need be until hard; let sit for 15 minutes; check around it for leaks with a dry paper towel. If it's leaking the fuel head is bad, been known to happen but not common.
4. you might try 6" or so of clear vinyl tube between the fuel head and BOTH the fuel line from the tank and the fuel line to the CP3. Bleed; run the engine at idle; if air shows first in tank line the air leak is likely in the tank quick disconnect fittings; if it shows first in the CP3 line the fuel head is leaking.

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Thanks papaindigo just bled it again and took it for a drive fuel head seems fine not leaking but still picking up air might have to try the clear hose between the fuel head but would I be better of just fitting a pump to it if I have to drop the fuel tank that would have to sort both them out I hope thanks again

.45Cole · **Joined:** Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:11 pm **Posts:** 17

Let me know how this turns out, mine bleeds air into the system too. If you bleed the system before you go to bed, the next morning you should still have pressure and no air. That told me it wasn't the head, but somewhere else. Probably the same area as mine.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:05 am

Touf1973 wrote:

Thanks papaindigo just bled it again and took it for a drive fuel head seems fine not leaking but still picking up air might have to try the clear hose between the fuel head but would I be better of just fitting a pump to it if I have to drop the fuel tank that would have to sort both them out I hope thanks again

I would not jump to installing a lift pump. You need to sort out the source of the leak, or you're just adding a band-aid.
Dry off the filter head really well, maybe use some simple green on any diesel leaking out of it and get it dry. Then pump the plunger just until firm, you don't have to lean into it. Now inspect for leaks on the filter head. You may have to wait, but common places are out of the bleeder screw, the driver's side (heater) plug, filter o-ring, and plunger shaft.

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Thanks catcrd will have to look into it the fuel head seems ok stays dry and it's only 1 week old but it did have a leak at the nipple just nipped it up a little ok now still leaking somewhere thinking the connection down by the tank

flman · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:41 am

I have used the exhaust of a shop vac into the fuel filler with a rag around it for extra seal, then I open the bleeder and the pressure of the vac pushes out the air, If you do this and still have problems, you have an air leak for sure.

BTW, I put an under hood lift pump of both of mine.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:43 am

Just to get it out there although this has been discussed in the past. The CRD fuel lines are the same as those on the KJ gasser BUT the CRD fuel pump (CP3) is located low down on the front driver's side of the engine as opposed to the gasser fuel pump which is located in the fuel tank. As such the CRD fuel pump "pulls" fuel from the tank while the gasser pump "pushes" fuel from the tank. Nothing wrong with this setup and in fact most all older gassers had the fuel pump on the block where it was driven by a cam internal to the engine. The downside of "pulling" fuel from the tank is a) doing so can collapse weak fuel hose and cutoff fuel or b) suck air into the fuel line if all the fittings are not air tight. The downside of "pushing" fuel from the tank is the potential of spraying fuel out of any fitting that's not air tight.

Air in the fuel on the CRD is most commonly caused by intake of air at the fuel line quick disconnect fittings back by the fuel tank as they are designed for the gasser system to seal best when under pressure of the fuel being "pushed" from the tank. However, as CATCRD says it's also possible for air to get in at several places on the filter head or, I might add, where the fuel line meets the CP3. That's why I suggested clear vinyl tube on BOTH lines at the filter head. I also find a dry paper towel an effective leak locator. FYI don't forget the water in fuel sensor on the bottom of the filter might be a leak source.

If air is getting in via the quick disconnect fittings they can be eliminated without installing an intank or inline fuel pump. Drop the tank; cut those fittings out of the system; replace with marine grade diesel rated (not the cheap chain store stuff) fuel line (you might have to pay all of $5 for a foot or so of the good stuff but it will last and the cheap stuff won't) and appropriate stainless steel hose clamps.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:19 pm

Touf, my opinion, do it right even if it takes more time and money. Drop the fuel tank, replace those gasoline quick disconnect with hose. Marine grade hose is uscg (us coast guard) military spec hose, better than the cheap one. Napa has 3/8 uscg hose on stock. Then see if you have a leak in your fuel filter assembly. If you do, fix it or get a new one, which comes with a filter already. Then, for convenience, you may add a fuel pump of your choice. I'd recommend Kennedy diesel centrifugal fuel pump, which is an inline pump (you can install it anywhere on your fuel line, closer to fuel tank, in the engine bay, under the jeep on the fuel line, etc), but if that pump ever stops working, it will still let the fuel go through it and won't let you stranded in the middle of the road. Plus, it's easier to replace since you won't have to drop your fuel tank...

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Thanks guys just checked the fuel head and it has a little leak at the bleeding nipple and it's only 1 week old so fingers crossed that might be my problem guys honestly if I didn't find this forum I honestly don't know what I would have done such a helpfull bunch of guys god bless and thanks to all !! Will take the fuel head back and exchange it will keep you all posted

flman · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:56 pm

flman wrote:

I have used the exhaust of a shop vac into the fuel filler with a rag around it for extra seal, then I open the bleeder and the pressure of the vac pushes out the air, If you do this and still have problems, you have an air leak for sure.

BTW, I put an under hood lift pump of both of mine.

Thanks to Pap, I corrected a typo, I meant use the shop vac exhaust in the fuel filler, not filter.

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Quick update still messing around with the fuel head returned it to the dealership told it takes 1 month for warranty claims even if it's 1 week old was forced to pay $250 for another head unit wasn't happy but you wouldn't believe the unit I got to replace the faulty one leaks from the bleeder nipple also would anyone know of a better bleeding nipple I could change to can't afford to pay for 3rd unit

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:57 pm

won't help now - but you can normally get that unit online for ~$100 shipping included.

I'll also add the caveat -that the fuel head in the most likely leak - but it's not the only one - there are also concerns with the tank connectors. you just have to work through the details.

Touf1973 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 36

Thanks atxkj yer I seen they were cheaper online but I'm from Australia so I thought if there was a warranty claim would be easer from my local dealership boy was I wrong I still think my connectors are leaking but have to get the nipple on the fuel head to stop leaking before I can go any further would be good if there was a valve instead of the nipple

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:51 am

See my previous post on what the bleeder screw is "like". Bottom line is if it doesn't seat properly it will leak and you cannot tighten it too hard or the threads will strip. A while back these folks (http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/gm ... valve-kit/) sold a kit for the CRD that replaces the bleeder screw with a fixed adapter (threads can be sealed with a good gasket compound) and a "T" handle bleeder. I do not know if this kit will fit the CRD but if the adapter threads on the GM are the same as those on the CRD bleeder it would. If not I suspect you could put together the parts based on a visit to appropriate auto parts and/or plumbing supply places. If you go that route pls post the parts.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

Eventually, I want to upgrade the performance my two Libby CRDs. I am concerned that, without a lift pump, the demand for fuel from the injection pump will outstrip the ability of that same pump to suck it from the fuel tank. Is a lift pump a recommended upgrade for owners wishing for a performance upgrade, (GDE, et al)?

What is the best lift pump available for the Liberty CRD? In line, like the Kennedy pump, or a fuel pump that is mounted in the tank? I have to drop my fuel tank to install a suction hose for the Webasto heater anyway, so complications regarding installation are not an issue for me. I just want the best pump available. I understand - perhaps incorrectly - that a lift pump from a Cummins equipped H-D pickup will fit right in, and there is little or no modifications even required for the wiring.

I am currently having no issues with air in the fuel, (I have experienced no real drops in power, other than the times the CEL has thrown a P0299 code; and I believe that is an unrelated problem), and I am witnessing no fuel leaks, so I am hesitant to spend the money to change the fuel filter head for the new improved one from Chrysler. Can I get an upgraded fuel filter head under warranty or a recall? I had heard that there were engine bay fires caused by an air-in-fuel condition and the fuel heater element being on. Does this not make the upgrade to the new fuel filter head an automatic recall?

Any feedback from our more educated Members in these matters is GREATLY appreciated. Ask me about CRD thermostats; that I know. This area of expertise is brand new to me... :mrgreen:

And yes, I did read the noob guide - it is excellent, (thanks, Sir Sam); but the devil is in the details here. I am willing to spend the money for the best equipment available; that is why I am spending good money developing the new thermostat. I want the best lift pump available for this application IF I need one. I will also probably spring for a new fuel filter head - again, IF I need one - but in this case I feel Chrysler should be giving us all updated fuel filter heads. :goink:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:39 am

My

for what that's worth:
1. a "lift" pump is not necessary for any feasible CRD performance upgrade. The "puller" (e.g. engine mounted) fuel pump design has been around for decades and is more than capable of supplying more fuel than you will ever burn in the engine. This assumes a tight fuel supply line from inside the fuel tank to the engine, that the fuel filter is not dirty/clogged, and that your fuel has not gelled. An auxiliary fuel pump, either in-line like a Kennedy or Facet (a true "lift" pump) or in-tank (a true "pusher" pump) might help supply a bit more fuel to the engine mounted pump but the real benefit, such as it is, is to pressurize the fuel lines. Note that the in-tank unit is better at this. The benefit of pressurizing the CRD fuel lines is not directly related to fuel delivery rather it's related to the fact that the CRD fuel lines are the same as on the gasser which does have an in-tank pump hence the quick disconnect fittings are designed to work best to keep fuel in when under internal pressure rather than keep air out while fuel is being sucked/pulled to the engine. IMHO the best and least expensive fuel line solution is to replace the quick disconnects with clamps and marine grade diesel rated fuel line which makes the fuel supply line solid all the way to the filter head. That said there is no harm in adding a pump, I have a Facet on the shelf just in case, I just don't personally see the benefit although it sure makes bleeding the fuel head easy.
2. Sorry the 2n gen fuel head is not available under a TSB or a recall; you have to buy it and the wiring pigtail. I don't know of any fires directly caused by a leaky CRD fuel filter head but it's possible although diesel is hard to set on fire and the leaks I've seen are minor. The main problem is if it leaks then air gets into the top of the filter head and the line to the CP3/pump. Some though are still running the 1s gen head with no problems. If so I'd pop the heater element plug at each oil change; stick a "Q" tip in the recess; smell the "Q" tip for diesel; if smell present replace head/if not don't replace head.

Jeep with air in fuel !!!

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