Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)

tim536 · **Joined:** Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:39 pm **Posts:** 2

Also, with the GDE tune, no CEL for missing FCV, a bit harsher shut down noticed

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:53 pm

Point of interest here: The GM D-Max and Dodge Cummins trucks utilize two (count'em: 2) high-capacity +12v batterys in parallel-connected configuration, entirely suitable for supplying more-than adequate power required to burn the intake heater, with it's increasing electrical demand at increasingly cold ambients - also, D-Max's and Cummins count very few glow plugs amongst their accessories list

Don't get caught outdoors with your amps down.......................

Plugging-in the factory-equipped 115vac block heater to warm the engine oil helps greatly to increase available starting rpm for quicker compression pressure-rise to minimum-required combustion temps

Oops, my bad - harking back thru the misty past that Duramaxx engines were also fitted in the GM SUBURBAN lines, glo-plugs were included for increased ease of starting to satisfy the cross-over soccer-mom and soccer-dad crowd, accustomed to the easier-starting gasoline versions

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

For those of you intrigued by this concept but are looking for a turn-key solution, we have developed a 100% bolt-in intake heater kit that will be for sale on our web site soon. The heater kit will include everything needed for reliable cold-weather starting and can be installed in 2-3 hours: a specially designed high-flow intake elbow, OE-quality plug-and-play wiring harness, heater element and everything else already included in our popular intake elbow kits. This means you get all the benefits of our intake elbow kit AND reliable cold-weather starting. (And an upgrade option will be available at a reduced price if you already own an intake kit.)

Our heater kit looks OEM (you won't even know it's there if you look under the hood) and is specially designed for our smaller 4 cyl. engine, rather than adapted from heavier-duty engine applications, so heavy gauge wiring, high-amp relays and additional batteries are not required.

We are still testing and data-logging to provide our customers with proven results and optimum usage guidelines, but it's already been very effective down to 20F. More details to follow, for now, here is a teaser:

dirtmover · **Posted:** Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:57 pm

weeks101 wrote:

We are still testing and data-logging to provide our customers with proven results and optimum usage guidelines, but it's already been very effective down to 20F. More details to follow, for now, here is a teaser:

Nice!

...and there I was thinking that I didn't really need your intake elbow. Any idea of the ETA? Will it be available before the end of the year?

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

dirtmover wrote:

Nice!...and there I was thinking that I didn't really need your intake elbow. Any idea of the ETA? Will it be available before the end of the year?

Well, I could release it as soon as next week but I want to get more data-logging done before doing a public release. (I am shooting for January). I do not foresee the final design changing much at this point.

If any of you are interested in one now, I am looking for 2-3 customers to assist with real-world testing. Please contact me for specifics, but in exchange for testing you will receive a reduced price. You are eligible if you live in Alaska or Canada, where it is already way too cold, and possibly northern U.S. states.

Oh and join our newsletter to get notified of new product launches: http://www.sasquatchparts.com/ (right-hand column)

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:00 pm

tim536 wrote:

Also, with the GDE tune, no CEL for missing FCV, a bit harsher shut down noticed

Very nice idea and writeup. Amazing that the heater was the same size. IMO the spacer is not even needed, heck mine has no fcv at all and the CAC hose reaches without stress. How much would you say you have invested in the mod?

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:07 pm

weeks101 wrote:

dirtmover wrote:

Nice!...and there I was thinking that I didn't really need your intake elbow. Any idea of the ETA? Will it be available before the end of the year?

Well, I could release it as soon as next week but I want to get more data-logging done before doing a public release. (I am shooting for January). I do not foresee the final design changing much at this point.

If any of you are interested in one now, I am looking for 2-3 customers to assist with real-world testing. Please contact me for specifics, but in exchange for testing you will receive a reduced price. You are eligible if you live in Alaska or Canada, where it is already way too cold, and possibly northern U.S. states.

Oh and join our newsletter to get notified of new product launches: http://www.sasquatchparts.com/ (right-hand column)

You know I'm interested, I'll pm you for details. You may, if you want, have 2 heaters in the market, I already have 2 batteries so I could get the one that needs more juice.

MtnClimber · **Posted:** Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:17 pm

weeks101 wrote:

dirtmover wrote:

Nice!...and there I was thinking that I didn't really need your intake elbow. Any idea of the ETA? Will it be available before the end of the year?

Well, I could release it as soon as next week but I want to get more data-logging done before doing a public release. (I am shooting for January). I do not foresee the final design changing much at this point.

If any of you are interested in one now, I am looking for 2-3 customers to assist with real-world testing. Please contact me for specifics, but in exchange for testing you will receive a reduced price. You are eligible if you live in Alaska or Canada, where it is already way too cold, and possibly northern U.S. states.

Oh and join our newsletter to get notified of new product launches: http://www.sasquatchparts.com/ (right-hand column)

So for those of us who just purchased but have not installed the CRD Intake Elbow Kit can we do a switch out now? I'd be willing to be a tester as I live in the Colorado Rockies at 8200' elevation.

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

If you're serious about testing, then yes. We'll need to stay in touch and discuss your usage and results.

What is the weather like there this time of year? Please email me if you want to move forward. Thanks!

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:47 pm

tim536 wrote:

Last fall I replaced all 4 glow plugs on my wife's 2006 with 7v ETECNO plugs. With the polar vortex producing sub-zero temps, the new plugs being cooler than the ceramic plugs, and the wife working second shift, I spent many late nights in the hospital parking lot jump starting the jeep. She ended up going to work early to get a parking space by a light pole with an outlet so she could plug in the block heater. She also burnt out 2 of the plugs. So I started making plans to add an intake heater. My Duramax has glow plugs and a coil intake heater, as do powerstrokes. Cummins has an intake heater only. On ebay I found a new intake heater 98050441 for a LLY Duramax Express high turbo. From the pictures, it looked like the housing had a square mounting pattern similar to the FCV. I bought it for $15 with a gasket. The heater has electronics in one end to control the output. I dug out the electronics and cut that end off the housing. When I was done, it looked like a Cummins intake heater except only one element. When I tore into the jeep, I was amazed to find that the FCV and the heater had identical mounting holes, the same inside bore, and the same O ring seal. So out with the FCV and in with the heater. The heater was about 1/2" thinner than the FCV, so I fabricated a spacer out of 1/2" aluminum. I got a set of Sasquatch Motorsports intake manifold studs to replace the PITA bolts. The heater is manually controlled, so I wanted a way to monitor the intake temp. I bought a $30 remote probe temp gauge. I notched the gasket between the elbow and manifold for the probe wire. I also make a blocking plate for the EGR port and inserted a 3/4 to 7/8 expand tite into the hole in the bottom of the elbow. After replacing all the glow plugs, I bolted everything back together. A Ford stater relay powers the heater with a push button mounted in the temp gauge. I have tested it several times with the coldest temp at 20. I heat the intake to about 120 then shut it, cycle the glow plugs and start, then hit the heater again until it smooths out. Intake temp when running cold with heater on maintains about 90. I plan to add a small second battery just for the heater, a relay to charge the second battery, and a volt meter to monitor the batteries.

a used intake heater, the top is what gets cut off

Have you measured the amp draw from the heater itself, or battery voltage while it's energized? Or better yet, what's the resistance of the heating element in it?

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

Okay, all of you who have inquired about testing, I have sent replies. Thanks for the interest. Right now it's looking like an ETA of about 2 weeks.

flman · **Posted:** Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:14 pm

So does it just plug into the existing GP wiring?

Your awesome! Weeks! :pepper:

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

No, the heater is manually activated prior to firing the factory glow plugs. It features a 100% plug-and-play wiring harness, soldered and shrink wrapped with braided sleeves, OE-style sealed connectors/relay/fuse holder, etc.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:23 am

weeks101 wrote:

We are still testing and data-logging to provide our customers with proven results and optimum usage guidelines, but it's already been very effective down to 20F. More details to follow, for now, here is a teaser:

Just curious, how robust is this heating element over time? Any chance of the element or part of it breaking off and being ingested by the motor? I think I like the grid heater concept better like my Dodge has, seems to be a lot more robust.... :roll:

Great idea though, if it works and stands the test of time!!!

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:59 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

weeks101 wrote:

We are still testing and data-logging to provide our customers with proven results and optimum usage guidelines, but it's already been very effective down to 20F. More details to follow, for now, here is a teaser:

Just curious, how robust is this heating element over time? Any chance of the element or part of it breaking off and being ingested by the motor? I think I like the grid heater concept better like my Dodge has, seems to be a lot more robust.... :roll:

Great idea though, if it works and stands the test of time!!!

Not sure what heater weeks uses, but this looks pretty close to Perkins' engine warmer. From what I know, every warmer on any engine has a limited lifespawn, but I doubt this particular one would see and end soon. It would be useful though to have a recommended replacement time and spare warmers though.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:11 pm

Some related thoughts -

The CUMMIN(no g, eh)S intake heater has no end-of-life-span, but it does require two (count 'em: 2) HD contactors wired in parallel to two wired-in-parallel HD batteries to power it up under low-ambient conditions - using only one of the elements with one contactor to one battery could possibly suffice for a smaller engine with half the displacement: 2.8L 4-cyl vs 5.9L 6-cyl

'Nuther prollem being, it takes a lot of amps to hot-up that thick ribbon of ni-chrome and keep it glowing at low ambients, and you've still got to have enuff amps left to crank-over a Diesel engine with grease-like cold oil in the bearings

The Duramax version may be an easier-to-adapt solution but with the same caveat: takes two parallel-wired batteries to supply sufficient starting current

The KJ alternator could charge two batteries, but there is absolutely no room in the engine bay for a second AGM lead-acid battery.

Could arrange for a larger ampacity AGM battery to replace the oem version by lowering the battery tray to allow greater hood clearance

Alternately, the large lead-acid battery could be replaced with a NiMh batt of same ampacity in a half-sized package, with the additional batt intalled directly adjacent in the same batt tray

OR a much larger ampacity NiMh battery with same dimension as oem AGM lead acid battery

You're looking at some big bucks for a larger ampacity NiMh, or Li-Ion, battery, but would increase starting reliability where 115vac power is not available for the engine block heater, which use thereof does improve ease-of-starting in low ambients

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:40 am

Probably doesn't matter to the discussion but my 1993 Dodge D250 Cummins 5.9L had 1 big honking battery with like 1,000 or so CCA and the grid heater. Sometime after that the dual battery setup was introduced; I'm not sure exactly when but my 1998 D250 12valve Cummins 5.9 had the dual battery setup.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:33 pm

That is relevant because it illustrates the concept - modern cab-forward body styles with shorter noses resulted in greatly-decreased engine bay real estate, leaving no room for those huge batteries - it is also easier to achieve required ampacity by using two smaller batteries in parallel, and greater ampacity can be had without too much increase in physical dimension - two smaller batteries also distributed and balanced battery weight equally across the chassis, necesitated by the thinner sheet-metals and proliferation of thermoplastics used in the later body-styles for weight-reduction, necessitated by congressional-mandate for increased corporate-average fuel economy C.A.F.E

The new-for-'94 body style came equipped with two smaller batteries, one on each fender behind the radiator bulkhead

The KJ is a very good example of the problem, where there is barely room for one smaller battery - increased ampacity is available in an AGM-type battery without too great an increase in dimension - NiMh and Li-Ion batteries offer much greater ampacity in packages of very reduced dimesion, as can be seen in the hover-round type and segway type vehicles

The ULTIMA RED TOP batteries in my '01 RAM ('94 body-style) each have greater ampacity in nearly the same footprint as the KJ RED TOP - both sizes are currently availabe for ~$150\ free shipping off eBay

FYI: I, too, have one of the older BMF 1000cca batteries, but at 73yoa, I can no longer hoist if off the ground and above my shoulders to clear the radiator bulk-head, then down to it's spot on the frame directly behind the grille - I have replaced it with two (count'em: 2) smaller 850cca batteries, which I can lift and press, plus getting way more ampacity out of the upgrade

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

Some photos of the prototype kits. There are three of these in the wild now.

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

gmctd wrote:

Some related thoughts -

The CUMMINS intake heater has no end-of-life-span, but it does require two (count 'em: 2) HD contactors wired in parallel to two wired-in-parallel HD batteries to power it up under low-ambient conditions - using only one of the elements with one contactor to one battery could possibly suffice for a smaller engine with half the displacement: 2.8L 4-cyl vs 5.9L 6-cyl

'Nuther prollem being, it takes a lot of amps to hot-up that thick ribbon of ni-chrome and keep it glowing at low ambients, and you've still got to have enuff amps left to crank-over a Diesel engine with grease-like cold oil in the bearings

The intake grid heater on my 1998 Dodge with Cummins 5.9L 12 valve has two elements and uses two contactors. I have installed two group 31 Interstate batteries with 1000 CCA each. A few months back I accidentally blew the alternator fuse while changing the oil. I ran the truck for 5 days before the "check gauges" light came on. That's 5 days, 56 miles per day, headlights on and AC on in the morning and AC on in the evening.

My Cummins QSB3.3T 3.3L diesel has a similar grid heater with only one element, one contactor and one battery.

Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)

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