Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)

flman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:45 am

If the weeks El is installed properly there should be no silicone between the el and the intake, the el and the flange are kissing each other. Silicone is only external.

I can not see why you could not drill the manifold with the el remove let most of the filings fall out, and vacuum the rest. but it is your rig?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:48 am

My aftermarket boost sensor is right there, I'll take a look tonight, there might be a spot.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:29 am

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I don't think it'd be on long enough to heat the intake up THAT much. At key on the lift pump only runs for 20 seconds am I right? If so it takes roughly 5 seconds for the heater to put out full "flame" so your left with about a good 15 seconds of burn. After that you'll have to start at which point the heat will travel with the airflow.
I'd imagine the best spot for it would be in the manifold, but 7/8" is a big hole to drill, with lots of shavings, and I don't feel like taking it that far apart to get it off, again.
Once I get it goin I'll do some testing with an ir gun to see where the heat is goin for sure.

I like the idea. So don't get me wrong

... But above the silicon hose between elbow and valve cover is a very small place to install it and it's also relatively close to the weeks elbow silicone hose. But heat goes up so it may be ok. We need a glow time to warm up the heater then start the fuel flow.

We can have a switch installed to kick the warmer, then another one to start the pump on demand. Radio "ignition" plus works when you turn the key "down" (like unscrewing it - to start the radio when engine is off), so the tank/lift pump can get its plus from the radio through a relay and switch. What I mean is to turn the key to start the radio when engine is stopped, this can send power to the switch for the warmer fuel, turning the switch on will start the fuel pump which will push fuel in the injector and then start burning since it's hot.

I still think this is overkill for us in Ohio, weeks intake heater is more than enough, but may be a very good system for somebody in Alaska or Canada.

Can you calculate the amps required for the warmer? Weeks glow plug (from intake heater) has a 30 amp fuse.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:11 pm

I was thinking of coming off key on power to the switch, and power the relay and solenoid with the switch. All the heater plugs we use are powered this way, and seems to work fine.
So the procedure I'm thinking of would be, turn key to on, push glow switch and let it run for 15 seconds, then start. You can afterglow for quite awhile too. The 24v ones have a 40amp fuse for both, so 20 each, I'll check on the New Holland later today.
my motto has always been, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

flman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:30 pm

thermorex wrote:

X2, I have a garage and can plug the libbys in if it ever gets that cold. But great idea for a cold climate, and thanks to diesel guy for at least giving it a try, cant wait to see how it works for you.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:56 pm

I usually plug in, but you never know where you could end up, especially considering my wife and kids are the ones who use it most. Not to mention it'll just help on overall cold starting.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:59 pm

flman wrote:

thermorex wrote:

X2, I have a garage and can plug the libbys in if it ever gets that cold. But great idea for a cold climate, and thanks to diesel guy for at least giving it a try, cant wait to see how it works for you.

Let's not forget about weeks heater, he also put a lot of time in design and manufacture for his heater. And it's a very neat and simple install. But diesel guy's idea seems to be good for insane cold temperatures (using treated/additive fuel of course). The only thing I'd do is to have the hose replaced with a solid aluminum block similar to original intake, so I wouldn't worry about messing it up with too much heat. I'm not very sure also how would the flame affect the relatively thin aluminum, maybe the engines that use that heater are cast iron head and steel intake? Just curious, because using it with aluminum parts will make this heater a non-idiot only upgrade.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:16 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I was thinking of coming off key on power to the switch, and power the relay and solenoid with the switch. All the heater plugs we use are powered this way, and seems to work fine.
So the procedure I'm thinking of would be, turn key to on, push glow switch and let it run for 15 seconds, then start. You can afterglow for quite awhile too. The 24v ones have a 40amp fuse for both, so 20 each, I'll check on the New Holland later today.
my motto has always been, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Agree with the Motto. And also it's a cool project.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:38 pm

Weeks kit IS very well engineered and will work great no doubt. We're both trying to accomplish the same goal, easier cold starts. I think mine will take overall less current (amps from battery) and will heat the air up quicker, but there COULD be some dangers, won't know untill some testing is done.
I agree with you 100% on the all metal elbow, was already thinking of it as well as opening up my manifold so it would be a full 2.5" from intercooler back. Was also thinking of using regular mild steel or stainless not really for any heat resistance, but ease of welding for me.
There will be some testing outside the vehicle to see what the best location is, as well as what size restrictor to use. May be possible to get it restricted enough that there isn't much of a flame, but rather a good hot glow, dunno we'll see.
love the free flowing brainstorming btw!

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

thermorex wrote:

Let's not forget about weeks heater, he also put a lot of time in design and manufacture for his heater. And it's a very neat and simple install.

I now have it up on the site: https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/shop/in ... cv-delete/

Given the limitations of the factory battery situation, it's been effective down to 0F, but as you start getting into negative temps, longer run-times are required and the factory battery becomes the limiting factor. It needs to have enough left in it to fire the glow plugs and spin the engine fast enough.

The price is higher than I wanted it to be but it's the only way I can produce it right now, given the hand-made nature of everything in small quantities. We'll see how it goes. I think the real solution is in the glow plugs themselves (maybe someday IDParts can source some decent ceramics) or the way they are controlled by the ECM (maybe GDE or the DIY crowd?). But until another solution arises, at least there is an option, and it works.

user113 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:09 pm

Weeks,

One solution would be to place a second similarly sized battery inside a winch bumper, connected with some decent battery cables in parallel with the original battery. You could offer a battery tray with a winch mount bolt pattern just for this application.

On my 2004 Ram, even after you start it up, and still with two batteries, the headlights dim significantly as the heater grid cycles on. The voltmeter is down between 2-3 volts when the heater is on as opposed to when it is off despite the 130 amp alternator running.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:20 pm

How much does a winch bumper cost? $1,000? Not many people are going to spend $1,500 for better cold starts.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:33 pm

No need for an expensive bumper. I have a shuriken bt35 battery under the back seat. It's perfect size that still allows the seat to fully fold down. If a person really wanted to, they could put another one on the other side. Mine was for audio purposes as I used maxwell supercaps underneath there before and should give the extra amperage required for this heater

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:03 am

For Crd, the best solution imo is to mount one battery in the rear and leave the one under the hood. I have both mine rear mounted right after rear bench, but I can't put a bigger box in the trunk anymore. If you decide to go with 2 batteries and need trunk space, either mount one longitudinal after rear bench on the side of the jeep, either in front of rear bench (centered or side) where the foot rest is (as I have them on the Cherokee but on that jeep I don't care about passengers in the back as there is no back seat anymore

). Costs are not that bad, maybe couple hundred bucks without battery, you'll need gauge 1 cable (2ga works but I prefer thicker, especially that it's a few good feet of length), some heavy duty battery clamps and a battery tray.

Even without the heater, in cold weather 2 batteries increase the chances of starting by a huge margin. Not to mention if you have a winch, 2 battery setup is a must, provided you want to use the winch for more than 5 seconds of course, lol.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:29 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

How much does a winch bumper cost? $1,000? Not many people are going to spend $1,500 for better cold starts.

I'm sure he meant for whoever has an arb bumper already. But my opinion is that bumper mounted battery is not a good idea due to the elements the battery can be exposed to (water, shocks, fire hazard/shorts in an accident).

flman · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:45 pm

thermorex wrote:

Let's not forget about weeks heater, he also put a lot of time in design and manufacture for his heater. And it's a very neat and simple install. But diesel guy's idea seems to be good for insane cold temperatures (using treated/additive fuel of course). The only thing I'd do is to have the hose replaced with a solid aluminum block similar to original intake, so I wouldn't worry about messing it up with too much heat. I'm not very sure also how would the flame affect the relatively thin aluminum, maybe the engines that use that heater are cast iron head and steel intake? Just curious, because using it with aluminum parts will make this heater a non-idiot only upgrade.

And we appreciate that, but being in a garage out of the cold and wind, and able to plug in the block heater, I need that no more then a guy in Florida. But as time goes by I am sure I will be buying more Sasquatch products as needed.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:56 pm

flman wrote:

thermorex wrote:

Let's not forget about weeks heater, he also put a lot of time in design and manufacture for his heater. And it's a very neat and simple install. But diesel guy's idea seems to be good for insane cold temperatures (using treated/additive fuel of course). The only thing I'd do is to have the hose replaced with a solid aluminum block similar to original intake, so I wouldn't worry about messing it up with too much heat. I'm not very sure also how would the flame affect the relatively thin aluminum, maybe the engines that use that heater are cast iron head and steel intake? Just curious, because using it with aluminum parts will make this heater a non-idiot only upgrade.

And we appreciate that, but being in a garage out of the cold and wind, and able to plug in the block heater, I need that no more then a guy in Florida. But as time goes by I am sure I will be buying more Sasquatch products as needed.

Agree, my garage never has less than 40F no matter how cold is outside. I got the heater more for "just in case" situations, like getting stuck at work on subzero temps.

SJBrooks · **Joined:** Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am **Posts:** 42

Reviving this OLD thread. I'll now be using our CRD throughout this coming winter, and having to park it where there's no electrical outlet for the block heater. That said, I'm definitely in need of much better cold-weather starting. What updates on this thread can anybody provide?

Steve

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:49 am

Just a suggestion!
Build your own; there are some inline air intake heaters available on line. See picture
A simple circuit using an HD starter relay, and a spring loaded momentary on SPST switch mounted on the dash, some 10ga. wire and a large amp fuse would work.
You would have to be your own manual timer as to how long to hold the switch in the on/heat position, probably 10-15 seconds would suffice depending on ambient temperature.
If you need help with a wiring diagram, let me know and I can draw one.
You will need a very good battery to withstand the current draw of an electric grid heater!

The screw in heater could be mounted in the FCV or in the metal elbow pipe if the EGR system has been removed.
Or use the inline type that mounts between boost hose and intake.

SJBrooks · **Joined:** Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am **Posts:** 42

Yes WW, a diagram for the wiring would be awesome! I've seen some of your other posts with them, and I'm sure they've been a huge help to the requestors. Actually, I posted a thread previously about the in-line intake heater but didn't get any bites in reply, so am glad that you replied to this one. If you don't mind, plz give a recommendation as to which one (screw-in versus in-line) you'd go with. I know that Sasquatch offers a mount for a larger battery, and I might go with that too. Outside of that mount, do you or anyone else have any suggestions on how/where to mount a second battery?

THANKS in advance for the help!

Steve

Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)

Who is online