LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78704		 Page 1 of 8
Author:  65Corvair [ Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
I have recently purchased a grid heater from a dodge truck to hopefully adapt it into something we can use. (cheap from eBay) I know the stock dodge truck block will not work for us, so I will design one that will. (Still have solid works on my computer from college)

Image

After some disassembly I removed the heating elements. There are 2 in the block I bought. I bent the one on the right as shown below.

Image

If I place it on top of the intake elbow, it will just clear the 4 mounting hole that go into the intake manifold.

Image

As I continue on with my developments, I will keep posting on what progress I have made.
Please post any ideas you have, help with this is appreciated. My goal is to have a working grid heater by next winter, so we have lots of time to try different things.
Author:  graycenphil [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
Interesting. The idea is to use this instead of the glowplugs?
Author:  65Corvair [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
My plan is not to replace the glow plugs, but for this to help out on very cold days where the steel glow plugs have trouble starting. Below 10F or so.
Author:  weeks101 [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
What is your plan for the electronics side of things?
Author:  joelukex4 [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
I would think it would be direct wired to battery with the appropriate relay used in the Dodge Cummins and switched to the interior for manual on/off. Use only when needed, mostly that first start of the day.
Author:  flman [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
joelukex4 wrote:
I would think it would be direct wired to battery with the appropriate relay used in the Dodge Cummins and switched to the interior for manual on/off. Use only when needed, mostly that first start of the day.


X2, I would expect it would be the same?

It looks like Corvair should be able to make 2 heaters out of 1 Cummins heater?
Author:  The Scott McLean [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
Almost looks perfect to bolt on between elbow and intake. I agree a hard switch inside the cab would be perfect. Turn it on wait a few minutes then start the vehicle with the appropriate wait time for the glow plugs. Keep me in the loop on this one, up here with -40 degrees sustained all winter long my jeep gives me the middle finger everyday after work.
Author:  65Corvair [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
For electrical I would start with a ring terminal off of the alternator, go to a 100 amp fuse, to a relay, to the grid heater. This keeps all the wire directly on the engine, no worry about a large gauge constantly flexing (engine vibrations compared to vehicle chassis) wire touching anything it should not.

Image


Relay I would use http://www.ebay.com/itm/180862175081?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
This relay is rated to withstand vibrations of being mounted directly to the engine. Rated at 100 amps with a duty cycle of 10 min continuous.

According to this site the grid heater draws 95 amps.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/32-air-system/102-grid-heater
Author:  Tom Plumb [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
Great idea. Thanks for the leg work. Put me on the list if this goes to production or prototype.
Author:  joelukex4 [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Don't you need the grid & relay wired to the battery as the grid heater will be charged prior to the engine starting.
Author:  65Corvair [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
That post on the alternator is connected directly to the battery, so it is always "hot". Ground will be through the engine block, unless I run into problems with that method.
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Thats a great project, keep us posted. I am actually waiting for Seth to have some time and try his kit with a Perkins Tractor intake heater. Doing the 2 battery conversion this weekend
Author:  flman [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project
65Corvair wrote:
For electrical I would start with a ring terminal off of the alternator, go to a 100 amp fuse, to a relay, to the grid heater. This keeps all the wire directly on the engine, no worry about a large gauge constantly flexing (engine vibrations compared to vehicle chassis) wire touching anything it should not.

Image


Relay I would use http://www.ebay.com/itm/180862175081?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
This relay is rated to withstand vibrations of being mounted directly to the engine. Rated at 100 amps with a duty cycle of 10 min continuous.

According to this site the grid heater draws 95 amps.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/32-air-system/102-grid-heater


That looks like the same type of relay I had in my old Freightliner FL50 Cummins or the old Ford starter solenoid, I also used to frequent MoparMans site back in them days as well. Nice forum Mike has.
Author:  minisub [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Love this project. I have spent this winter with the etecnos wishing the Jeep had an intake heater like my Duramax....

I hope you don't run out of weather before you get to do some testing on the efficicacy of it. The way this winter has gone, I expect you have more time than anyone would actually care for ;-)

A lot of the high performance GM folks take them out to improve flow, would expect the same is true on the Cummins side, so they should be available cheap...
Author:  mark2m [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Is there any worry about reduce air flow with the heater restricting the intake tract there? Would there be any problems with oil or dirt accumulations building up on it? Just wondering.
Author:  65Corvair [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
I don't think we will have issues with reduced air flow because this heater is for an engine nearly twice our size.
I am concerned with the oil from the CCV getting on it, I will have to look and see if other engines have a similar set up.
Author:  VMKJCRD [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Good concept.

But my main concern would the CCV oil and the soot build up. I really can't tell but the separation between the ridges are 1/4"? Also how long would it have to be on to make a difference in the start up??

I'm thinking of going this route.
http://proheatproducts.com/index.php?ma ... ucts_id=17

Slapping one of these on the Intake on the outside of course and also on the belly pan. They have others that you can connect to the battery but it wouldn't so much since it would be on the onside and only turned on for a few seconds.

My jeep is always plugged in in the mornings and the wife drives it to the train station. I've been able to start in -10 degree weather in a parking lot with howling winds. It does take an extra crank or 2 but she fires up and that's with an auto starter that has a also 10 second delay.
Author:  flman [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
I am thinking that it is going to glow cherry red and burn the oil clean off of it, and its location should not be a concern for fire?
Author:  VMKJCRD [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Very good points. 175 watts on each pad is over kill.

We can always turn it down a notch or seven!

This between the block and the intaka on a 1 or 2 hour timer with the block heater would do pretty well.

http://proheatproducts.com/index.php?ma ... ducts_id=1
Author:  tim536 [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
Last fall I replaced all 4 glow plugs on my wife's 2006 with 7v ETECNO plugs. With the polar vortex producing sub-zero temps, the new plugs being cooler than the ceramic plugs, and the wife working second shift, I spent many late nights in the hospital parking lot jump starting the jeep. She ended up going to work early to get a parking space by a light pole with an outlet so she could plug in the block heater. She also burnt out 2 of the plugs. So I started making plans to add an intake heater. My Duramax has glow plugs and a coil intake heater, as do powerstrokes. Cummins has an intake heater only. On ebay I found a new intake heater 98050441 for a LLY Duramax Express high turbo. From the pictures, it looked like the housing had a square mounting pattern similar to the FCV. I bought it for $15 with a gasket. The heater has electronics in one end to control the output. I dug out the electronics and cut that end off the housing. When I was done, it looked like a Cummins intake heater except only one element. When I tore into the jeep, I was amazed to find that the FCV and the heater had identical mounting holes, the same inside bore, and the same O ring seal. So out with the FCV and in with the heater. The heater was about 1/2" thinner than the FCV, so I fabricated a spacer out of 1/2" aluminum. I got a set of Sasquatch Motorsports intake manifold studs to replace the PITA bolts. The heater is manually controlled, so I wanted a way to monitor the intake temp. I bought a $30 remote probe temp gauge. I notched the gasket between the elbow and manifold for the probe wire. I also make a blocking plate for the EGR port and inserted a 3/4 to 7/8 expand tite into the hole in the bottom of the elbow. After replacing all the glow plugs, I bolted everything back together. A Ford stater relay powers the heater with a push button mounted in the temp gauge. I have tested it several times with the coldest temp at 20. I heat the intake to about 120 then shut it, cycle the glow plugs and start, then hit the heater again until it smooths out. Intake temp when running cold with heater on maintains about 90. I plan to add a small second battery just for the heater, a relay to charge the second battery, and a volt meter to monitor the batteries.

a used intake heater, the top is what gets cut off
Image

the modified intake heater
Image

FCV and intake heater, very similar, like it was meant to be
Image

heater with spacer compared to FCV
Image

heater, spacer, gaskets, the metal gasket came with heater, hose adapter
Image

out with the FCV, in with heater
Image

expand tite plug in elbow with locknut
Image

EGR block off
Image

starter relay, the blue wire below relay is the remote temp gauge probe wire, zoom in to see where it goes into the intake
Image
Page 1 of 8 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/