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Turbo Failure signs
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Author:  jtz54 [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Turbo Failure signs
Started having an unusual vibration in the gas pedal while driving. Took to the shop, they said motor mounts looked ok. Only happens in drive. He said they just had a CRD that blew a turbo and he suspects that mine may be the same. What are the signs of a turbo going out? Spins up fine in neutral. Any ideas on the vibration?


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Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Pull the air box to breather hose and gently feel for play in the compressor wheel. In out play should be no more than 1/32" and side to side should be barely perceivable. I think they can blow up without much warning and they definately can destroy the $5k engine. I just replaced mine with 1/8" slack.
If the wheel has nicks or has rubbed the housing I wouldn't start it until replaced.

I don't think you'd feel it in the gas pedal though.

Front drive shaft maybe? Check the boot on it.
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Signs of turbo failure is excessive shaft play. When it fails it will be a very loud and pronounced screech. A seal failure will happen without warning.

The accelerator is nothing more than a sensor, its hooked to nothing but a couple of wires. Vibration could be from anything.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Our turbos do not have seals. As stated, ANY side play means do not run. I think anything beyond 1/64" of play when moving the shaft fore and aft also means do not start. Most turbo cars can have the turbo fail and it is not much more than an inconvenience. With the KJ CRD, it often results in total engine destruction within 45 seconds of turbo failure. Just cannot afford to mess around with these.

DOC
Author:  amslube [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Vibration in gas pedal...does it rattle a bit more when shutting down? Notice a little vibration when accelerating or decelerating? You can't tell if a motor mount is bad on these by looking at them. I had to pull mine out and shake it, then I definitely knew. I even tried shaking the engine but couldn't detect anything.
Author:  jtz54 [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
A mechanic looked at the mounts with the engine running and in gear but said they looked good. I have 140k and just had the HG replaced. Checked the turbo this morning there is a little play on the shaft but not a lot. Still planning to get the turbo replaced soon. This vibration is weird because you only feel it while driving. Revving the engine in neutral with the car moving or not doesn't produce any vibration.

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Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Turbos have to have seals or what else would keep the oil in, or the 20+ psi of boost from pressurizing the center housing. There should at least be a piston ring seal on the turbine end.
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
diesel_guy86 wrote:
Turbos have to have seals or what else would keep the oil in, or the 20+ psi of boost from pressurizing the center housing. There should at least be a piston ring seal on the turbine end.


Correct, something has to keep all that oil in the bearings, and I bet a very tiny bit of play is in the brand new ones too, never seen/heard of a turbo with 0 play, that means the seals/brass bearings are too tight and no oil can get through.
Author:  Joe Dirt [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
If you have a vibration I would check your u -joints. I have replaced 2 on mine , each time they started getting bad I had a vibration.
Author:  CATCRD [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
jtz54 wrote:
A mechanic looked at the mounts with the engine running and in gear but said they looked good. I have 140k and just had the HG replaced. Checked the turbo this morning there is a little play on the shaft but not a lot. Still planning to get the turbo replaced soon. This vibration is weird because you only feel it while driving. Revving the engine in neutral with the car moving or not doesn't produce any vibration.

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The motor mounts never "look" bad when they go. It just looks like a block of rubber. The guts inside are what breaks. There's a spring-like mechanism inside fastened to the studs you see. When that breaks, they cause vibration and noise. The only real way to tell is to take out the mount and shake it. You should feel nothing loose inside. Someone here posted a picture of a bad one cut open a while back.
Author:  blackfin2 [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
I had the same vibration feeling while driving while giving it modest pedal or more. This continued for two months. Perfect at cruise or idle, no load. Saturday the turbo blew. The shaft broke, and the exhaust side shot down the down pipe. Smoked out three lanes of traffic. lol

Your turbo is on borrowed time. Replace it as soon as you can. I don't see anyway that a turbo self destruct can harm your engine, being that the intercooler will catch any of the debris. However, after turbo failure, engine oil will exit your exhaust at a high rate. Your engine would be oil free in five minutes....which equals bad things happening.

Good Luck
Author:  DOC4444 [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Actual experience is 45 seconds after turbo failure for oil pressure loss at bearings and total engine destruction with the KJ CRD. Review GEORDI's posts.

We have an awful lot of real world experience here. Ignore at your peril.

DOC
Author:  MRausch82 [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
I say motor mounts. Everyone is right, you cannot tell by looking at them if they are bad. Take them off, and shake them, and it will become apparent very quickly. I replaced mine around 70K. They were bad around 47K. I am at 102K now, and I am starting to hear a slight rattle again. I will likely have to replace them again within the year. Poor design unfortunately, but a very common problem and symptom.
Author:  dirtmover [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Joe Dirt wrote:
If you have a vibration I would check your u -joints. I have replaced 2 on mine , each time they started getting bad I had a vibration.


U-joint failure seems to manifest itself in different ways. When mine originally failed it appeared as a vibration, a bit like driving on the rumble strip at the side of the highway while decelerating below about 40mph. This would intensify as approaching a stop.

One of them is on it's way out again, same symptoms but this time I also feel a vibration at highway speed, ~70mph, when I back off the accelerator a touch. Interestingly I soaked both joints on the rear shaft with penetrant in prep for pressing them out and all symptoms have disappeared.

I certainly wouldn't rule out transmission/drivetrain issues in this case.
Author:  65Corvair [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
I would think that the turbo spins so fast you wouldn't be able to feel the vibrations if it was out of balance.

I would check/replace engine mounts, you can feel the difference on the first start.
Author:  pjigar [ Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
Resurrecting an old thread. I know the play is the sure way to test turbo going out but is there any continuous way to track turbo health? I am going to put a boost gauge to monitor turbo health. What should I be monitoring?

When people way failed turbo kill engine, what kind of damage are we talking about? Debris going into intake or engine oil starvation? I it is debris then I am thinking of putting some sort of screen int he intake path, would that help?

I have invested a lot of time and money making this motor rock solid. I don't want a failing turbo killing my motor.
Author:  Hexus [ Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
I would also like to add to this post, that our front drive shaft doesn't have "U JOINTS" it has a CV joint at the front and rear.

Kind of tired of seeing people say that.
Author:  thermorex [ Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
pjigar wrote:
Resurrecting an old thread. I know the play is the sure way to test turbo going out but is there any continuous way to track turbo health? I am going to put a boost gauge to monitor turbo health. What should I be monitoring?

When people way failed turbo kill engine, what kind of damage are we talking about? Debris going into intake or engine oil starvation? I it is debris then I am thinking of putting some sort of screen int he intake path, would that help?

I have invested a lot of time and money making this motor rock solid. I don't want a failing turbo killing my motor.

There are several scenarios with turbo going bad. It starts with radial play (up-down-left-right), then it develops axial play (front-rear). Then when the play is getting worse, the "bearings" which in out turbo is made by brass sleeves with some tiny holes on the sides to allow oil to go through will eventually damage the oil seals and oil can go in 2 directions, depending on where is the biggest wear:
- will leak oil to the turbo pressure hose, towards the intercooler. This can result in an intercooler full with oil in a short time, followed by a runaway diesel engine. I have never heard anybody with crd with a runaway diesel.
- will leak towards the exhaust side of the turbo, depleting your oil in a very short time and seizing the engine.

Boost is an ok indicator, but having good good boost won't mean turbo is as good as new. Best thing is to periodically check the axial and radial play and install an egt gauge, perform proper turbo cool down. I turn off my engine when egt (measured pre turbo) drops below 300. So proper care is the best way to take care of your turbo.
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo Failure signs
A catastrophic turbo failure, as far as I know, does not involve debris into the engine as debris would have to go all the way thru the intercooler to even get to the intake. Rather it typically results in oil starvation beginning at the #1 piston crank bearing. This is because the turbo oil feed is pressurized off the main oil gallery and if the turbo bearing fails to the point of a massive oil leak then that bearing losses oil pressure well before the low oil pressure light comes on. The first sign of this happening is often a massive cloud of black smoke behind you for no apparent reason as the turbo pumps that excess oil into the intake. If this happens shut the engine down immediately regardless of location/speed as you have mere seconds to save your engine. Probably not a CRD specific issue as this is likely the same for many/most turbo charged engines.
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