Rocker noise immediately after Timing Belt replacement

Indiana · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:52 pm **Posts:** 6

I just recently had the timing belt replaced at 151,000 miles. I only did it because I felt it would be a good investment to keep my Liberty running smooth for another 150,000 miles. I am very disappointed however, because now there is a noise that I would say is the rockers chattering when accelerating under a load, such as going up a steep hill. The noise is only there for a few seconds and then its gone and everything sounds and feels the way it should. I can tell when the noise is happening though the engine is struggling to make good power. Has anyone experienced this problem right after a Timing Belt replacement? Thank you for any insight!

cerich · **Posted:** Sat May 03, 2014 8:14 pm

Indiana wrote:

I just recently had the timing belt replaced at 151,000 miles. I only did it because I felt it would be a good investment to keep my Liberty running smooth for another 150,000 miles. I am very disappointed however, because now there is a noise that I would say is the rockers chattering when accelerating under a load, such as going up a steep hill. The noise is only there for a few seconds and then its gone and everything sounds and feels the way it should. I can tell when the noise is happening though the engine is struggling to make good power. Has anyone experienced this problem right after a Timing Belt replacement? Thank you for any insight!

bring it back to whoever did it, sounds like they possibly mistimed it by a tooth.

151,000 miles eh? You are a betting man.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sat May 03, 2014 11:23 pm

Imo, if your Pistons are barely hitting the valves, the rocker will break relatively fast, like few miles. The noise would stay always on, no matter how hard you accelerate. Since you said you need to accelerate hard, I'd advise to pay attention if the noise is coming from a Crack in the muffler, or injectors. Could be also some turbo related noises, if the hoses had been removed.

car0430a · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 4:53 pm

I am also around the 151k mark. Im also experiencing noise under load i.e. chugging up a hill. Noise is only noticeable at or around 2300-2500 RPM. Not much noise less than that and rarely ever over those RPM's. I have searched and searched for answers. I am leaning towards rockers :banghead:

I just did not want to dig back into motor until around 175k 2nd timing belt, water pump replacement etc. Question are my days numbered, should I be investing in miller tools. rockers etc? Also does not sound to be an exhaust leak. Sounds to be coming from upper engine area. But again you cannot duplicate the sound ever except for under load. And of course I am away from home, tools etc etc until mid august :banghead:

Everything always goes bad at the worst possible times.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 5:26 pm

Use torque pro for Android and measure MAP settings with engine idling. Values should be close to 18g, below 17 you may have rocker issues.

car0430a · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 6:12 pm

I unfortunately do not have an Android phone. I have had the opportunity to hook up to an expensive Mac Tool Computer Scanner with no luck in reading it, as it had no info for our little Diesels programmed into it. I will have to search how to read MAP with something different. Yeah yeah I know I can get a cheap outdated Android phone, download app and read it that way. That just may be what I end up doing. And then also find different readings again for different local elevations.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 8:25 pm

151k miles? Fixing it for "another 150k miles"?
The timing belt service interval is 100k miles...

Noises after the job is done / power loss issues mean something wasn't done right.
Not to brag on my own services, but all of the Jeeps I have worked on have "run much smoother and with better power" say the owners. I make a point of properly re-timing the fuel pump and centering the cams with every service (centering just means within the range that the pins will allow some flex - put it in the perfect middle) and I think both these things make the job much more successful.

Who did your service? Have they ever worked on a CRD before? (It doesn't sound like it). Rocker issues wouldn't present just at a single RPM or load condition, they would present 100% of the time because that is a mechanical failure, not a transient glitch.

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thermorex · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 10:47 pm

car0430a wrote:

I unfortunately do not have an Android phone. I have had the opportunity to hook up to an expensive Mac Tool Computer Scanner with no luck in reading it, as it had no info for our little Diesels programmed into it. I will have to search how to read MAP with something different. Yeah yeah I know I can get a cheap outdated Android phone, download app and read it that way. That just may be what I end up doing. And then also find different readings again for different local elevations.

Maybe you have a friend with an Android phone? Or get a cheap older model from eBay? Or a cheap Android tablet? If you plan keeping the jeep, this maybe a good investment... You also need a blue tooth obd2 device to connect with the Jeeps computer.

That noise you hear could be some of your injectors. Try using an oily additive such as Lucas, made for diesels and see if noise smoothes up... Also some muffler leak can make the noise. Worth looking into those also imo.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 10, 2014 12:58 am

"Extra" diesel clatter can also be an indication of low fuel pressure - The higher the delivery pressure, the better the spray and the quieter (and more complete) the combustion.

This is not to say that you have a fuel PRESSURE problem, so much as you have a FUEL problem. Hearing hoofbeats, think horses not paisley zebras.
At that RPM / speed combination, especially under acceleration, that is probably one of the highest demand points in the fuel map. You are at high boost and high GPH for fuel... It could be as simple as needing a fresh fuel filter OR a lift pump near / in the tank.

Adding the external Mr Gasket lift pump on my CRD certainly calmed the engine down a noticeable amount, and did seem to make it run smoother. Hey, you aren't asking the main pump to work quite as hard for it's food, so naturally it would be happier doing its job.

Indiana · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:52 pm **Posts:** 6

Took Jeep back to dealship that replaced timing belt. They are saying my problem is from the EGR sticking partially open sometimes causing too much exhuast gas back into intake. To replace EGR they want $1200 parts and labor. I am wondering if a GDE Eco Tune would be the answer and just shut off the EGR altogether. If I do the Eco Tune does the EGR still have to be removed and blocked off or just retire it in place?

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

Indiana wrote:

They are saying my problem is from the EGR sticking partially open sometimes causing too much exhuast gas back into intake. To replace EGR they want $1200 parts and labor. I am wondering if a GDE Eco Tune would be the answer and just shut off the EGR altogether. If I do the Eco Tune does the EGR still have to be removed and blocked off or just retire it in place?

Time for a tune and EGR bypass. See my signature.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2014 2:10 pm

Indiana wrote:

Took Jeep back to dealship that replaced timing belt. They are saying my problem is from the EGR sticking partially open sometimes causing too much exhuast gas back into intake. To replace EGR they want $1200 parts and labor. I am wondering if a GDE Eco Tune would be the answer and just shut off the EGR altogether. If I do the Eco Tune does the EGR still have to be removed and blocked off or just retire it in place?

They are handing you a line of pure bullshipt.

The operating condition of the engine and intake when under acceleration is under BOOST, so if the EGR is stuck open, then your engine would be LOSING boost, not gaining EGR. This is not to suggest that the EGR is properly functioning either, but if it was partly open under boost - you'd be able to tell pretty easily. The exhaust would be puffing smoke like a train, under all or almost all driving conditions. If you don't have smoke, you don't have a broken (open) EGR.

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Indiana · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:52 pm **Posts:** 6

This is a little lengthy but, I thought I would follow up on this post in case anyone else out there is hearing excessive engine clatter, and or is contemplating on whether or not to buy an engine tune. I went with the advice of senior members and ordered the GDE Ecotune. After I installed the tune the engine would only clatter if I really held it under a hard load over 2500rpms. However it now poured black smoke out like a freight train. To go along with that my mpg and all around power since around 120,000miles has dropped off considerably. I'm at around 160,000miles now. I used to get around 31mpg, now I was down to around 22mpg. This seemed like an excessive drop, but I had never had any check engine lights before to tell me something was wrong. I was hoping the Ecotune would bring me back up at least into the upper 20's, however I haven't noticed any improvement in mpg. This jeep used to be really fun to drive, now I felt like I had to hold back. After reading some more posts I thought I would try to clean the MAP sensor. Seemed almost too easy, one 4mm bolt and a can of cleaner. All I can say is WOW! Should've done this 2 years ago when I read about it here. Immediate difference on power. It feels like it used to, with plenty of power to spare, and the smoke has cleared up. Too early to tell what difference if any this will make on mpg, but I will post after I know. My advice to anyone that hasn't already done so is buy a tune to shut off the EGR. I went with the thought that if its not broke don't fix it, however it never occured to me what I was doing to the engine might save me some headaches and money down the road. I bought this vehicle with the frame of mind that the little 4cylinder diesel would "run forever" if properlly maintained. I was beginning to doubt that, but this website has brought back some of my confidence. I want to say a big THANK YOU to all the members on here that have spent their time and money to figure this stuff out. It is invaluable to someone like me.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:23 am

So did the clatter ever clear up?

camo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:55 pm

You don't need an Android to read the sensors of the CRD. get this (obdwiz) from eBay and install it on any windows laptop, it is only 30 or 40 bucks and you will be able to see the behavior of the air intake along with some other goodies.

Indiana · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:52 pm **Posts:** 6

Well the effects of cleaning my map sensor lasted only a couple of days unfortunately. I went ahead and ordered a new one from jegs, installed and noticed no difference at all this time. After doing some more research on here found post about installing an egr delete kit from Weeks101. Read how if the egr sticks open there will be a major loss of boost and exhaust will dump to intake. So im thinking now that even though I installed gde tune to shut off egr, the egr is actually stuck in the open position. Ordered the delete kit today and will update again after install.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:08 pm

When the engine is at any operating condition OTHER than idle or deceleration, the EGR is not providing exhaust into the intake, it is allowing boost to ESCAPE by going OUT through that same tube.

As I had said months before - Smoke means you have not enough AIR for the amount of FUEL that the engine is injecting. The boost is leaking somewhere along the line, and at your mileage, the EGR is certainly failed.

The factory programming has the EGR open about 90% of the time, and it typically fails after only about 20k miles of "normal" driving. That yours lasted considerably longer is a shock, but not unheard of. Your engine will be MUCH happier with the Weeks kit, and feel free to remove ALL of that evil crap down there, and just toss it or recycle it at your local scrap yard.

I personally like to keep the heater hose connection from under the intake and just use a length of hose to bring it over the engine to the Y connection by the thermostat, but others have capped that outlet instead. Your choice.

Indiana · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:52 pm **Posts:** 6

Replaced the EGR FCV with the Weeks kit and blocked off the EGR this past Saturday. Took Jeep for test drive and to my disappointment it is still running like crap. Still blowing smoke, under powered and a distinct engine noise under hard load. So just to update I've got the GDE Ecotune with the Sasquatch parts EGR delete kit. I've considered installing an external lift pump, however I was thinking that if the problem is low fuel pressure it would go into limp mode, which I have experienced years ago when I first bought the jeep with an old fuel filter on it. Is there something I'm missing here since its still blowing smoke, I thought for sure EGR delete would clear that up. Are there other sensors that i should be looking at, besides MAP and MAF?

greiswig · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:35 pm

I have not reread this whole thread, but...someone mentioned that the timing might be off. It strikes me as really coincidental that this started right after having it changed. So that would be the first place I'd look for issues. Certainly before investing in a tune or intake kit, but that's just me.

Also, from what I can tell, it is possible to mis-time it by any fraction of a tooth that you might care to, since the cam gears can slip on the cams. If your shop didn't know that, it seems like it would be pretty easy to mess it up. I don't know what role the cam position sensor plays in the injection timing, but if the cam associated with that sensor were off by a little and it made it inject too early or late, that might change power, engine sound, etc.

The only thing that is puzzling to me is that it happens under load, not under all conditions? It might be hard to tell, but can you tell the difference between mechanical clatter and combustion clatter?

Jay ne Ohio · **Joined:** Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:49 pm **Posts:** 216

Indiana wrote:

Replaced the EGR FCV with the Weeks kit and blocked off the EGR this past Saturday. Took Jeep for test drive and to my disappointment it is still running like crap. Still blowing smoke, under powered and a distinct engine noise under hard load. So just to update I've got the GDE Ecotune with the Sasquatch parts EGR delete kit. I've considered installing an external lift pump, however I was thinking that if the problem is low fuel pressure it would go into limp mode, which I have experienced years ago when I first bought the jeep with an old fuel filter on it. Is there something I'm missing here since its still blowing smoke, I thought for sure EGR delete would clear that up. Are there other sensors that i should be looking at, besides MAP and MAF?

If it is making smoke, it is getting plenty of fuel.

Engine noise plus smoke = bad rocker(s). Perhaps the rockers were damaged when the timing belt was changed or they are simply wore out at 161k. Mine were wore out at 121k on one jeep due to the wrong oil being used by the previous owner.

Rocker noise immediately after Timing Belt replacement

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