My 250+HP CRD build

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2015 11:22 am

Btw, do you actively monitor the iat temps? Just curious, especially that you took out the viscous fan.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2015 12:53 pm

He's talking compressed Boost temps pre-CAC - they zip up over 300*F in just a few seconds after Boost comes up - what you would see in the intake plenum is post-CAC (cooled) temps, greater than ambient but much less than compressor temps

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2015 10:03 pm

I always have my torque pro running and I'm always watching the iat. Either it's torque pro, or the sensor, but the map sensor doesn't seem to be overly sensitive to temp. When I get my flame heater installed I'm also going to put a temp controller in with a dedicated thermocouple to read iat, will be alot more accurate and trustworthy.
According to torque on a 60mph cruise I'm usually about 10 to maybe 20 degrees above ambient. My turbo's compressor breathes alot more and is more efficient than stock, so the air actually gets heated less, which could be one reason my plastic tanks are still holding.
When the new turbo goes in I'll be monitoring back pressure too, its just as important as boost, and affects power, flow, and EGTs just as much too.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2015 8:15 am

Quote:

According to torque on a 60mph cruise I'm usually about 10 to maybe 20 degrees above ambient. My turbo's compressor breathes alot more and is more efficient than stock, so the air actually gets heated less

Thats pretty good.
Mine, with stock turbo, is usually 20-30 deg above ambient.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2015 2:00 pm

Cool, thanks for explaining, I was just curious as I have never checked iat temps. Especially in city drive, I have gutted the viscous fan and using an e-fan, which starts based on coolant temps, and I was wondering if in city drive I should start the e-fan, more for cooling the air that gets in the intake. I need to add another probe in the intake.

devilkin4 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:14 am

have you figured out which turbo will be the best yet? i would like to do this to mine after i fix a few things first. would like to know what i need to get so i can start collecting the parts i will need.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:34 pm

I have been busy working out of town this whole year so far so ALL of my projects have been put on hold (intake heater, re ground factory cams, new turbo etc).

Im going with KPA turbos 2252 turbo, I expect it to outperform the factory vnt turbo, and garretts smallest ball bearing turbo, the gt2560r. I'm trying to get him to install a 56mm compressor for our crds.

I would like to find someone close who would be interested in putting one of these on there crd's for testing. Mine isnt stock so my results will be slightly different than one that is. If anyone is interested shoot me a pm.

I expect the end of july or so I'll be able to move forward with everything. The hot cams and turbo kit first on my list, I wasn't expecting to get this much work out of town.

mk38tech · **Joined:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm **Posts:** 72

anyone running a small water/meth setup yet?

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:11 pm

mk38tech wrote:

anyone running a small water/meth setup yet?

X2.....I'm also curious and have contemplated doing it

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:09 pm

I was going to do it because of the power level I'm at. There's a couple tricks to having a system that really performs efficiently. I really like the Banks system, expensive but you know it's designed and tested good.

devilkin4 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:47 pm

Sent you a pm. I'm about 20 mins or so from green diesel engineering and maybe a few hours from Ohio.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:23 pm

This guy put a GTB2260VK in his CRD:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=372445

He converted it from electronic actuation to vacuum actuation. This is apparently what a lot of VW tdi guys are doing when they put newer electronically controlled VNT's into old cars.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:42 am

I've been able to adjust my stock turbo to where it can put out 25-26 psi.
I could probably bring it up to about 28 psi but I don't want to push it too much.
Currently I have it set to where it peaks at around 24-25 then settles down to 20-21.

I'm still trying to understand all the aspects of tuning a common rail turbocharged Diesel engine.
Boost, fuel, injection timing, EGT, power, and efficiency.

More boost does not always equal more power.
More boost does not always equal greater efficiency.
Too much boost will lower efficiency.
More fuel always equals more power.
More fuel always equals higher EGT.
Too much fuel will lower efficiency.
More boost can lower EGT.
More boost raises intake air temperature.
Advanced injection timing can improve both power and efficiency. But I treat this as non adjustable because I don't know how to change that in the ECU programming.

Finding the right balance of boost, fuel, and timing can tune an engine for greater power, improved efficiency, and won't melt to turbo.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:46 pm

I'd love to be able to tune my own engine. Especially once this "stage 2" of performance upgrades gets slapped on. But since I'm rapidly approaching 200k miles, I'm going to take the motor out and replace the bottom end bearings. I'm contemplating removing the balancing assembly and having the entire rotating assembly balanced.

One thing I noticed is our MAP sensor only reads till 21psi, after this the computer can't "see" any more boost so it can't adjust fuel to compensate. I have a 3.5 bar MAP sensor but I need kieth to write me a new tune that uses the 3.5 bar scale.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:57 pm

flash7210 wrote:

I've been able to adjust my stock turbo to where it can put out 25-26 psi.
I could probably bring it up to about 28 psi but I don't want to push it too much.
Currently I have it set to where it peaks at around 24-25 then settles down to 20-21.

I'm still trying to understand all the aspects of tuning a common rail turbocharged Diesel engine.
Boost, fuel, injection timing, EGT, power, and efficiency.

More boost does not always equal more power.
More boost does not always equal greater efficiency.
Too much boost will lower efficiency.
More fuel always equals more power.
More fuel always equals higher EGT.
Too much fuel will lower efficiency.
More boost can lower EGT.
More boost raises intake air temperature.
Advanced injection timing can improve both power and efficiency. But I treat this as non adjustable because I don't know how to change that in the ECU programming.

Finding the right balance of boost, fuel, and timing can tune an engine for greater power, improved efficiency, and won't melt to turbo.

I saw your resistor thread and it looks like a sweet trick. The one thing that scares me is how much room is left in the turbo. GDE says their hot tune is maxing it out but I only ever saw 21-22psi on mine.

The other issue with your method is that your tune will need to be told to inject more fuel at 21 psi. Right now it sees you making 21psi based on the MAP sensor being faked, so its injecting whatever the smoke map allows for at that pressure despite it actually making more. You would need to adjust the smoke map to allow 25psi worth of fuel in the 21 psi column. Does it feel more powerful without any tune adjustments?

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mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:01 pm

I did find the guy on eBay with the turbo flanges so I ordered a T25 just to have it. I am not sure what route I am going to go with my jeep but I wanted to pick the flange up before he sold out.

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flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:30 am

Quote:

The other issue with your method is that your tune will need to be told to inject more fuel at 21 psi. Right now it sees you making 21psi based on the MAP sensor being faked, so its injecting whatever the smoke map allows for at that pressure despite it actually making more. You would need to adjust the smoke map to allow 25psi worth of fuel in the 21 psi column. Does it feel more powerful without any tune adjustments?

This is where proper tuning comes into play.

Adjusting the boost level (by fooling the MAP sensor) didn't feel like the engine was producing more power.
If you want more power you need more fuel.
But too much fuel equals too much black smoke.
So finding the right balance of fuel and boost, to increase power and control smoke, is whats necessary to have a good running and efficient diesel engine.

I'm still experimenting with this. Eventually I will either find the right balance of ECU tune and boost setting or I will find that none of this provided any worthwhile benefit.
The main reason for me to do this mod was to prove to myself that the stock turbo is capable of more than the 21-22 psi I was seeing at my MAP sensor and boost gauge.

Somewhere in this thread I read where Mr Diesel_Guy had his injectors extrude honed for increased fuel flow. Being able to adjust turbo boost levels would compensate for the modified injectors.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:43 am

flash7210 wrote:

Quote:

The other issue with your method is that your tune will need to be told to inject more fuel at 21 psi. Right now it sees you making 21psi based on the MAP sensor being faked, so its injecting whatever the smoke map allows for at that pressure despite it actually making more. You would need to adjust the smoke map to allow 25psi worth of fuel in the 21 psi column. Does it feel more powerful without any tune adjustments?

This is where proper tuning comes into play.

Adjusting the boost level (by fooling the MAP sensor) didn't feel like the engine was producing more power.
If you want more power you need more fuel.
But too much fuel equals too much black smoke.
So finding the right balance of fuel and boost, to increase power and control smoke, is whats necessary to have a good running and efficient diesel engine.

I'm still experimenting with this. Eventually I will either find the right balance of ECU tune and boost setting or I will find that none of this provided any worthwhile benefit.
The main reason for me to do this mod was to prove to myself that the stock turbo is capable of more than the 21-22 psi I was seeing at my MAP sensor and boost gauge.

So is the stock MAP truly limited to 2 bar? That seems odd since the stock tune shows up to 2335 millibar on the boost map.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:22 pm

mass-hole wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

Quote:

The other issue with your method is that your tune will need to be told to inject more fuel at 21 psi. Right now it sees you making 21psi based on the MAP sensor being faked, so its injecting whatever the smoke map allows for at that pressure despite it actually making more. You would need to adjust the smoke map to allow 25psi worth of fuel in the 21 psi column. Does it feel more powerful without any tune adjustments?

This is where proper tuning comes into play.

Adjusting the boost level (by fooling the MAP sensor) didn't feel like the engine was producing more power.
If you want more power you need more fuel.
But too much fuel equals too much black smoke.
So finding the right balance of fuel and boost, to increase power and control smoke, is whats necessary to have a good running and efficient diesel engine.

I'm still experimenting with this. Eventually I will either find the right balance of ECU tune and boost setting or I will find that none of this provided any worthwhile benefit.
The main reason for me to do this mod was to prove to myself that the stock turbo is capable of more than the 21-22 psi I was seeing at my MAP sensor and boost gauge.

So is the stock MAP truly limited to 2 bar? That seems odd since the stock tune shows up to 2335 millibar on the boost map.

2335 mBAR = 2.335 BAR = 33.8 psi
That doesn't seem right.
Even is you subtracted atmospheric pressure that would leave you with roughly 19 psi.

Maybe 19 psi is the max sustained boost limit with a upper boost limit of XX.XX psi where if exceeded would throw a overboost code?
(which kinda makes sense because if you watch the boost gauge on a stock engine, boost will go up to about 21-22 psi then drop down to 17-19 psi)

A 2 BAR MAP sensor should be good for up to about 28 psi.
All the ECU knows is the signal voltage coming from the the MAP sensor.
A MAP sensor with a different calibration will produce different results.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:46 pm

1) I am not using a resister aka boost fooler.

2) I had my injectors extrude honed ~30% or about 50hp worth. This is how I am making 260hp on the 200hp hot tune from GDE.

3) A map sensor reads from a perfect vacuum. 1 bar of pressure is 14.7psi, or the pressure at sea level. So if you have a 2.5 bar sensor, subtract 1 bar of pressure and that means you have 1.5 bar of pressure left, or 21-22psi. A 3.5 bar sensor will mean the computer will be able to read up to 35.75psi of boost.

My 250+HP CRD build

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