My 250+HP CRD build

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:53 pm

I'm guessing that the second pic is where intake is coming in so there's hopefully no water jacket behind that bulge?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:55 pm

IMO, porting and polishing this head will offer little improvement.
It's already boosted and operates at a relatively low RPM.
For a race car, where every little bit counts, this might make more sense.

I am curious about what could be done with the cams however.
I don't think any more lift would be necessary. But more duration could add a lot.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:24 pm

You're probably right, I'd probably be wasting my time porting a stock engine. I'm more than happy with the power, but I just want to maximize the mpg's because I hate hauling extra fuel where I go.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:18 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I did some searching and found the turbo mass-hole was referring to, it's a Garrett gb2260vklr. It seems there used mostly overseas on mercedes diesels. Price for one that appeared new on ebay.co.uk was right around $1,000. Plus you have to buy a kit so you can plumb the oil and water lines to the all-in-one center housing. You can however get them with the vacuum actuator like what the crd uses, which is nice.

I think there will be an equal amount of modding to get either turbo to work. My version requires adapting the downpipe and bolting on the manifold adapter. If one was to machine there housing to bolt the turbo direct the oil lines would even bolt right up. The intake hose and boost hoses bolt on too.
The gb2260 turbo will of course need adapting to bolt to the manifold, and downpipe, the compressor has a curved neck so your boost hose will probably have to be cut. Intake hose should slip on, and the oil plumbing needs completely customized because all the ports are located on one side of the center housing.

I am assuming anyone who is thinking about adding a new turbo is probably at the point of deactivating/removing the EGR. What about using the EGR coolant line to feed the turbo. Just reroute. Or is that not enough flow?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:12 pm

GDE told me that this head is flow restricted around 3500 rpms. I realize this is up there, but if flow can be improved then the turbo will work less and the easier the engine will make the same hp. I think 1-2 hours max is all that would be required to blend things on the 4 ports. There is no water jacket there, it's right around the area that the valve guide sits in.

Cams are not my thing, I understand what all the terms mean, but I can't tell you what sorta cam will do what. Colt has 35+plus years experience and specialize in diesel engines. I've been told by many engine builders that the secret in making power is in the cams. Porting usually goes hand in hand with cam work and can really let an engine breathe. I doubt there will be a HUGE hp improvement, but it won't hurt.

Using the egr coolant lines would work, would require a bit of extra plumbing since it has to go from the drivers side over to the passenger side. My thought was to put the turbo inline of the heater core supply line. This might help get some heat sooner in the winter time too.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Id be interested in new performance cams eventually whenever I get around to putting arp studs in

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:38 pm

I am also looking to replace my turbo with something more reliable than OEM.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:59 pm

I'm currently in talks with the gentleman in Europe on adapting the ball bearing vnt turbo (from here on out will be known as the vklr turbo) to our turbine manifold. Hopefully it will be a bolt on upgrade with slight modification to the oil lines.

Waiting on housings to arrive for the 2560, then it'll get balanced, installed, and driven up to GDE for a proper tune.

tonydduramax · **Joined:** Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 5

Just read threw your build great info, and thanks for all the R&D you have done on these jeeps I have duramax and love the power they have
Thanks again

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I'm currently in talks with the gentleman in Europe on adapting the ball bearing vnt turbo (from here on out will be known as the vklr turbo) to our turbine manifold. Hopefully it will be a bolt on upgrade with slight modification to the oil lines.

Waiting on housings to arrive for the 2560, then it'll get balanced, installed, and driven up to GDE for a proper tune.

Any updates? Let us know if you need any components fabricated to make this work, we would be willing to offer a kit if something like that would be helpful.

tonydduramax · **Joined:** Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:24 pm **Posts:** 5

I believe that the 2260 turbo is used on the 05 06 E320 cdi 3.2 sounds like it might be a good option I'm can't wait to see how this works

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 10:33 pm

After tearing my turbo apart, lots of measuring, and a major time difference that makes communication drag out forever, our manifolds cannot be modified to fit. to make it simple, our housings "house" the vanes, the newer generation turbos have the vanes in the center housing.

Any of the vk housings can be modified to fit the vklr turbo, but first you have to buy a turbo, $400-$1,000 on ebay, then get a housing (hard to find), have it machined to fit, and then pay for shipping from the uk. Once here, oil and water lines will have to be re routed, an adapter flange made to bolt it to the exhaust manifold will have to be made, boost hose will have to be cut, and lastly a new downpipe will have to be made to bolt up to the turbo. I can't see it being any cheaper than $2,000 at cost. When you look at the small number of crd out there, how many are gonna fork over $2,000 for a fancier turbo, and have atleast a day or 2 of time wrapped up in putting all the adapters on?

I'm not saying this avenue is dead, just that getting a proper tune and kit to use just a standard ball bearing turbo is more important right now. I've put on about 25k miles on my turbo now with NO problems or hiccups, I have boost instantly with a way simpler setup. Once I get the 2560 turbo on and tuned, I'll focus on trying to figure something out with the vklr turbo.

I still have yet to send my cams in, but I did call and they will be happy to see what they can do for us.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 2:21 am

flash7210 wrote:

IMO, porting and polishing this head will offer little improvement.
It's already boosted and operates at a relatively low RPM.
For a race car, where every little bit counts, this might make more sense.

I am curious about what could be done with the cams however.
I don't think any more lift would be necessary. But more duration could add a lot.

You're thinking spark-infested normally aspirated improvements for performance engines, where increased overlap takes advantage of the ram-air effect at high-rpm, allowing exiting exhaust gasses to pull fresh fuel\air mixture into the cylinder

Spark-infested engines "lope" because fuel is trucked in with the incoming air charge, and the increased valve overlap for high-rpm power prevents a full charge of fuel\air mixture from filling the cylinder at low rpm - thus, the erratic, loping idle

Modern turboDiesel engine valve timing is already overlapped, such that Boost can blow any dead gasses from the preceeding combustion event from the cylinder, allowing full fresh intake charge to be compressed for the next combustion event = improved efficiency

TurboDiesels do not "lope" because fuel is injected into a cylinder already full of compressed air
- small fuel quantity and you get idle
- large quantity and you get power

Most early turboDiesel cams could be improved because they were ground for normally aspirated service, the turbocharger added at some later point to provide increased power
- those cams could be reground to add the required overlap
- increased lift was not necessary because the incoming air was now turbocharged into the cylinder

The convoluted intake path could stand some improvement, as it seems rather restricted for higher rpm efficiency

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 6:57 am

Question to the OP, isn't the OEM exhaust manifold restrictive to this engine?

I never measured it and I am just going by memory but isn't the exist hole of the exhaust manifold approx 3" wide x 2 1/2" high and the exhaust tubes restrictive in the way they are arranged?

Shouldn't the exhaust manifold also be updated?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 8:34 am

gmctd wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

IMO, porting and polishing this head will offer little improvement.
It's already boosted and operates at a relatively low RPM.
For a race car, where every little bit counts, this might make more sense.

I am curious about what could be done with the cams however.
I don't think any more lift would be necessary. But more duration could add a lot.

You're thinking spark-infested normally aspirated improvements for performance engines, where increased overlap takes advantage of the ram-air effect at high-rpm, allowing exiting exhaust gasses to pull fresh fuel\air mixture into the cylinder

Spark-infested engines "lope" because fuel is trucked in with the incoming air charge, and the increased valve overlap for high-rpm power prevents a full charge of fuel\air mixture from filling the cylinder at low rpm - thus, the erratic, loping idle

Modern turboDiesel engine valve timing is already overlapped, such that Boost can blow any dead gasses from the preceeding combustion event from the cylinder, allowing full fresh intake charge to be compressed for the next combustion event = improved efficiency

TurboDiesels do not "lope" because fuel is injected into a cylinder already full of compressed air
- small fuel quantity and you get idle
- large quantity and you get power

Most early turboDiesel cams could be improved because they were ground for normally aspirated service, the turbocharger added at some later point to provide increased power
- those cams could be reground to add the required overlap
- increased lift was not necessary because the incoming air was now turbocharged into the cylinder

The convoluted intake path could stand some improvement, as it seems rather restricted for higher rpm efficiency

Re: camshaft lift and duration...

Actually, i wasn't thinking more duration to increase valve overlap.
I was thinking about a faster ramp angle to get the valve open to max lift sooner and hold it there just a bit longer. (i.e. more duration at max lift)
Essentially what we have are roller camshafts and because of the low RPM, tight valve-lash, and no lifter to bounce off the cam lobe, the rockers could probably handle a faster ramp angle.
But I really have no clue. I don't know the specs of the stock cams or the valve springs.
I've never heard of a diesel engine floating the valves but I suppose its possible.

Also, the latest versions of the VM 2.8L looks to have a better intake port configuration. The intake ports are on the side of the head, not on the top.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 8:44 am

racertracer wrote:

Question to the OP, isn't the OEM exhaust manifold restrictive to this engine?

I never measured it and I am just going by memory but isn't the exist hole of the exhaust manifold approx 3" wide x 2 1/2" high and the exhaust tubes restrictive in the way they are arranged?

Shouldn't the exhaust manifold also be updated?

DUDE!
Could you imagine a set of chrome equal length tuned headers bolted to this engine?
I have no idea how it could possibly fit but it would look wicked COOL! :twisted:

Seriously though, with every turbo diesel I have worked on, the exhaust manifold is just a cast iron tube that directs the exhaust from the exhaust ports to a single outlet.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 9:43 am

Quote:

Re: camshaft lift and duration...

Actually, i wasn't thinking more duration to increase valve overlap.
I was thinking about a faster ramp angle to get the valve open to max lift sooner and hold it there just a bit longer. (i.e. more duration at max lift)
Essentially what we have are roller camshafts and because of the low RPM, tight valve-lash, and no lifter to bounce off the cam lobe, the rockers could probably handle a faster ramp angle.
But I really have no clue. I don't know the specs of the stock cams or the valve springs.
I've never heard of a diesel engine floating the valves but I suppose its possible.

Also, the latest versions of the VM 2.8L looks to have a better intake port configuration. The intake ports are on the side of the head, not on the top.

Ok, but once gain, this applies to normally-aspirated high-rpm gasoline-fueled engines - the turbocharger overcomes intake path inefficiency where quicker valve opening\closing to\from full-lift heighth is not necessary

Correct on the exhaust manifold - tuned headers are needed for high-rpm normally-aspirated engines to scavenge the exhaust\intake flow-thru - the turbocharger blows all that away, so a log manifold is suitable, even if you're building an 8000rpm version of this 4500rpm engine - the necessarily restrictive exhaust-turbine defeats any function of tuned headers

Tho, they do look nice - maybe someone could put a supercharger on this engine and fabricate a nice set of headers to match

BTW, where have you seen later than the '06 versions of this DOHC engine?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 11:04 am

I'll explain things better later when I have more time, but for now,

A supercharger won't create enough pressure to run this engine, if it could the air would be hotter than hell itself.

Cam work on any engine turbocharged or not is proven to help, I'll leave what can/will be done to the cam experts.

Ive been wanting to contact steed speed on getting a log style manifold made. Although I don't think the factory one is all that restrictive.

Even though you have an equal length header, each runner won't flow the same due to different number and degree of bend of each bend in the runners. Air flows the path of least resistance whether there's pressure or not. The pressure will be the same, but flow will vary.

The company I got my current turbo from just released a 2252 ball bearing turbo. he's a friend of mine so I'm gonna call him up and see about slapping a billet 56mm (stock size) wheel to it. Judging by how fast I get boost from an oversized turbine wheel, I can't imagine why a vnt would be needed with this size of turbine wheel.

Comments/suggestions/ideas/your thoughts WELCOME

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 2:12 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I'll explain things better later when I have more time, but for now,

A supercharger won't create enough pressure to run this engine, if it could the air would be hotter than hell itself.

Cam work on any engine turbocharged or not is proven to help, I'll leave what can/will be done to the cam experts.

Ive been wanting to contact steed speed on getting a log style manifold made. Although I don't think the factory one is all that restrictive.

Even though you have an equal length header, each runner won't flow the same due to different number and degree of bend of each bend in the runners. Air flows the path of least resistance whether there's pressure or not. The pressure will be the same, but flow will vary.

The company I got my current turbo from just released a 2252 ball bearing turbo. he's a friend of mine so I'm gonna call him up and see about slapping a billet 56mm (stock size) wheel to it. Judging by how fast I get boost from an oversized turbine wheel, I can't imagine why a vnt would be needed with this size of turbine wheel.

Comments/suggestions/ideas/your thoughts WELCOME

At what point are you going to need a bigger intercooler? You are already running 50% more boost than factory so is that an issue?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2015 7:15 pm

When intake temps behind to get out of control is when I'll upgrade. At the moment I'm more worried about the plastic end tanks.

My 250+HP CRD build

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