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TSB 21-007-06 updates TSB 21-016-05 -now both trans filters.
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Author:  Guest [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  TSB 21-007-06 updates TSB 21-016-05 -now both trans filters.
For those who did not catch my post in the topic TSB's 18-009-06 & 21-016-05 Got an appointment :) I stumbled across the following today:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Chrysler/114 ... index.html

Now it has a specific note that requires both the transmission oil return filter AND transmission sump filter to be replaced - and stresses that one should not be replaced without the other. Man, I'm getting tired of this. I just spent months trying to get, and finally getting TSB 21-016-05 done - and now it's no good. WTF???

This is a new TSB, and not the very recent one 21-009-06, that replaces the torque converter.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for posting. I had my first delayed shift on Saturday and it was not cold out. Already had the 006 flash. I will be makiing the appointment today to go back in for the filters. In the meantime I will be letting her warm up.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:52 am ]
Post subject: 
So is it safe to say that if your tranny was NOT built during these listed dates, that is it certainly OK and has the proper parts installed in it? Mine was built April 7...just a few days before the second group.
Author:  Guest [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:57 am ]
Post subject: 
LibertyCRD wrote:
So is it safe to say that if your tranny was NOT built during these listed dates, that is it certainly OK and has the proper parts installed in it? Mine was built April 7...just a few days before the second group.


Double check your transmission build date, not the vehicle build date. You could at least try to get it done and thus get your fluid freshened up and new filters installed just in case. I don't believe in absolute cut off dates, there is probably a few before the date that need this (or could benefit)...
Author:  omniphil [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 
I have started to notice that after passing at about half throttle that the jeep bucks slightly after returning to a crusing speed, Is this indicative of the filter not supplying enought fluid after moderate accelleration?

Also, if the filters are replaced, how do you know the torque converter is ok?

Side note, our tranny build date is 2365
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:20 am ]
Post subject: 
LibertyCRD wrote:
So is it safe to say that if your tranny was NOT built during these listed dates, that is it certainly OK and has the proper parts installed in it? Mine was built April 7...just a few days before the second group.


Just so you know where to find the sticker on the tranny it is on the drivers side. My '06 had a tranny built 3-4 days prior to the last date on the TSB.

It would be interesting to know if others were experiencing the same problem that had build dates beyond those mentioned in the TSB. It would also be interesting to know how many non-Liberty CRD folks were experiencing related problems. The way it reads though they seem to have narrowed it down to a specific batch of poor parts. Most manufacturing plants have the parts tracking pretty well worked out thanks to "just in time delivery".
Author:  SteveInMD [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
The date code on my tranny is 0416. My Liberty was built Feb. 06. Do I need the TSB done?
Author:  omniphil [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
SteveInMD wrote:
The date code on my tranny is 0416. My Liberty was built Feb. 06. Do I need the TSB done?


Not according to the tsb...

Its 0425-0455 and 1015-2345
Author:  Ranger1 [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
The transmission bucking is not restricted to vehicles with defective filters. My 05 CRD had bucking early on and was flashed last year, which fixed it. Then recently it started again. although far less severe. The latest flash (18-009-06) fixed it again. I have never had any slow transmission engagement issues and my transmission build date (February 25, 2005) is not included in the bad filter tsb.

It looks like there is more than one issue going on with transmission bucking/jumping/lurching. Iirc, DCX stated that they modified the 545RFE torque converter to add vibration damping for the CRD. I find it interesting that DCX is now replacing torque converters on some CRD's - last year, Kevin of VM Motori posted that the torque converter on the 545RFE wasn't up to the low rpm torque of the CRD - he thought that maybe later a different torque converter might come out. Maybe he was on to something.
Author:  oldnavy [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ranger1 wrote:
It looks like there is more than one issue going on with transmission bucking/jumping/lurching. Iirc, DCX stated that they modified the 545RFE torque converter to add vibration damping for the CRD. I find it interesting that DCX is now replacing torque converters on some CRD's - last year, Kevin of VM Motori posted that the torque converter on the 545RFE wasn't up to the low rpm torque of the CRD - he thought that maybe later a different torque converter might come out. Maybe he was on to something.
I have had my doubts also about the tranny sometimes and the idea that the Hemi V8 at 1600 rpms maybe makes 100 lbs of torque compared to 295 lbs of the CRD, that's why diesels can hole shot gassers at the line. However if that's true and I thought about it why would the engineers miss something myself and others didn't or at least wonder about.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
You old diesel mechanics know a lot more than I but hasn't this been a DC issue since the beginning of time. I recall that they couldn't find a manual or automatic that would work in a Dodge PU when they were first introducing them in the 1980's. It would seem logical that they would understand that part of the engineering challenge by now.

OK, perhaps not. I spent 22 years working with engineers and they do tend to have tunnel vision. Maybe we need a shade tree mechanic or a farmer to figure this out.
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
With the new concern leaning to transmission filters TSB's, has anyone got a look at a slightly used filter from one of these units? This looks hauntingly similliar to some Allison issues I've seen. Had to do a very qiuck trans filter service on those when new because there was so much debris from the normal break-in process that it would plug the filters and starve the trans for lube, elevate trans temps, cook the oil, etc...
Author:  retmil46 [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:49 am ]
Post subject: 
If you notice, this TSB has been widened to just about every DC vehicle that used this type tranny for the last two years. Along with at least a couple other TSB's relating to this tranny, I get the feeling this is more widespread than just the two periods listed. I saw a safety campaign notice on alldata for all '06 vehicles with this tranny to have the filter changed. I don't think we've heard the end of the story yet as far as filters and torque converters, and I've got the sneaking feeling this may eventually work it's way into a recall.
Author:  Guest [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:22 am ]
Post subject: 
oldnavy wrote:
Ranger1 wrote:
It looks like there is more than one issue going on with transmission bucking/jumping/lurching. Iirc, DCX stated that they modified the 545RFE torque converter to add vibration damping for the CRD. I find it interesting that DCX is now replacing torque converters on some CRD's - last year, Kevin of VM Motori posted that the torque converter on the 545RFE wasn't up to the low rpm torque of the CRD - he thought that maybe later a different torque converter might come out. Maybe he was on to something.
I have had my doubts also about the tranny sometimes and the idea that the Hemi V8 at 1600 rpms maybe makes 100 lbs of torque compared to 295 lbs of the CRD, that's why diesels can hole shot gassers at the line. However if that's true and I thought about it why would the engineers miss something myself and others didn't or at least wonder about.


Wow, these are some real lightbulb moments for me. So this is why Chevy uses the new Allison transmission on their Duramax diesels? I wonder if one of those would fit under the Jeep...
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, and when the Duramax/Alison combo. first came out in the GM trucks they had nightmares with them. Took them almost two years to get it straightened out. :shock:
Author:  RFCRD [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:50 am ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
oldnavy wrote:
Ranger1 wrote:
It looks like there is more than one issue going on with transmission bucking/jumping/lurching. Iirc, DCX stated that they modified the 545RFE torque converter to add vibration damping for the CRD. I find it interesting that DCX is now replacing torque converters on some CRD's - last year, Kevin of VM Motori posted that the torque converter on the 545RFE wasn't up to the low rpm torque of the CRD - he thought that maybe later a different torque converter might come out. Maybe he was on to something.
I have had my doubts also about the tranny sometimes and the idea that the Hemi V8 at 1600 rpms maybe makes 100 lbs of torque compared to 295 lbs of the CRD, that's why diesels can hole shot gassers at the line. However if that's true and I thought about it why would the engineers miss something myself and others didn't or at least wonder about.


Wow, these are some real lightbulb moments for me. So this is why Chevy uses the new Allison transmission on their Duramax diesels? I wonder if one of those would fit under the Jeep...


It's probably cheaper to buy an Allison than designing and manufacturing a trans to put behind the D-max for the quantity they need. Have owned a few Allisons, some of their newer stuff has it's issues too.

One thing I notice on my CRD. Sit still and shift from reverse to foreward to reverse. Very slow to engage, a hint there is a fluid flow problem.
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
LibertyCRD wrote:
Yeah, and when the Duramax/Alison combo. first came out in the GM trucks they had nightmares with them. Took them almost two years to get it straightened out. :shock:
I thought they still were having some problems even a couple years ago.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah they are still having some problems with the Alison/Duramax combo. even now. But I'm talking about the first year or two after they introduced them it was widespread problems. Almost everyone complained. Ironically, it was a lot the same as the complaints some Jeep owners are having...shifting issues, jerking, etc. So I guess the point is, it's not DaimlerChrysler that's the only company out there having issues with diesel/automatic tranny combinations.

My opinion is...if they'd offer the CRD with the heavy-duty six speed manual, they'd sell more of them AND they'd have zero problems with them to warranty. Oh well... :(
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:29 am ]
Post subject: 
LibertyCRD wrote:
Yeah they are still having some problems with the Alison/Duramax combo. even now. But I'm talking about the first year or two after they introduced them it was widespread problems. Almost everyone complained. Ironically, it was a lot the same as the complaints some Jeep owners are having...shifting issues, jerking, etc. So I guess the point is, it's not DaimlerChrysler that's the only company out there having issues with diesel/automatic tranny combinations.

My opinion is...if they'd offer the CRD with the heavy-duty six speed manual, they'd sell more of them AND they'd have zero problems with them to warranty. Oh well... :(
I would not bet the farm on that manual tranny is no problem thing. For a while that was a problem child in the Cummins powered Dodge PU, although 90% was owner stupidity. Burned clutches to whole trannys destroyed, apparently by everything from wheel hopping in reverse to overloading the rig. Like we say in the USN "Nothing is sailor proof" and man was that ever the truth. :roll:
Author:  dgeist [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Do I need a new torque converter?
So, I've been following the thread and I've been having a little lurching and irregular shifting, but nothing that would snap my head back.

I called my dealer and they mentioned the TSB that includes a reprogram to deal with shifting and EGR performance/longevity. That sounds fine. I plan on having it done soon.

Now, I'm also getting a little bit of a metallic rattle coming from somewhere not inside the cab when I'm rolling under power (i.e. not coasting and when the Tach is at at 1800+. It doesn't do it if I'm parked and reving the engine, at least not that I can tell.

How can I tell if this is a ticking time bomb in my transmission and what are the magic words to get the dealer to fix it if it IS going to need replaced?

Dan
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