ITS OVER

Guest · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:24 pm

Stan Wright wrote:

I bought my CRD from Bill. He's a good guy, and his statements are honest and genuine.

Bill has talked with me for hours at a time discussing Jeep specs, problems, and possibilities. I have quizzed him with everything possible, and he is up on it. He even informed me of the C-Clip(or something close to that) problem with the Dana 44 fronts on Rubicons - I never asked, he just wanted me to be informed for the type of driving that I might need to do. He's an older gentleman that's been in the business for many, many years. You can pre-price your jeep on his website, no hassles, always below invoice and then incentives added on that.

That's why I emailed him, to clear the bull. He remembered me as the guy who quizzed him on the Wrangler unlimiteds for almost 2 years before I changed my mind and got a Liberty CRD. I tried VERY hard to justify getting a Wrangler Unlimited for a LONG time, and he was very patient with me.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:42 pm

Probably the google spelling here is one:
http://www.4wdonline.com/bbs/messages/7/647.html
BlueTec Jeep Grand Cherokee is the google spelling.

gd5092 · **Joined:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:11 pm **Posts:** 62

Hi All, New to this forum but not new to the Lib.
Just picked up my CRD last night. 3rd Libby!.
1st one got crashed, 2nd one got traded.

Figured with CRD going out again for 2007 and me always wanting one I went for it.

I thought sales was BS'ing me with the last factory orders going in last week, but guess it's true!.

-Gab
London, Ontario[/img]

valkraider · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:39 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

Didn't have much luck Googling Blue Tech, so I am still ignorant as ever. :roll:

Try "Blutec"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bluetec+diesel&btnG=Search

longarm · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:19 pm

I good friend of mine who is a GM at a local Dodge dealer and part owner of a Jeep, Dodge, and a seperate Hummer Dealership told me he has heard nothing of discontinuing the CRD. He further stated that if it was discontinued in the future that if anything, the value would be very good on our current CRD's. I'll try to find out more specifics in the next couple of days.

wolcott · **Joined:** Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:16 pm **Posts:** 108

From some literature I have read, my understanding is that Blue tech is a means of introducing urea into the exhaust to reduce the nitrogen oxides (NOx), which have been a big problem with diesels, even those running on bio diesel or clean diesel. But, the EPA feels that a system where you have to count on the driver refilling a urea resevoir to meet smog control specs will not work, and they will not approve it unless the engine is rendered inoperable when the urea runs out. I don't know what compromise Daimler Chrysler has been able to reach with the EPA on this.

longarm · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:21 pm

wolcott wrote:

. I don't know what compromise Daimler Chrysler has been able to reach with the EPA on this.

Buy them off. Isn't that what all bif companies do? :mrgreen:

Taz · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:08 pm

From what I have read the Urea addition will only be necessary on larger engines, on the smaller engines only 2 new catalytic converters will be needed. I did not see what was meant by larger engines though, DC has been showing the system on everything from MB cars and SUV's and the Jeep GC to medium duty chassis cabs. If this is the case then I would guess that we would see the smaller engines here first. Also at the New York auto show MB was showing off 2 diesel suv's that are bound for the US apparently they were certified with European diesel which has slightly more sulfer than the new US fuel standard.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:40 pm

Taz wrote:

From what I have read the Urea addition will only be necessary on larger engines, on the smaller engines only 2 new catalytic converters will be needed. I did not see what was meant by larger engines though, DC has been showing the system on everything from MB cars and SUV's and the Jeep GC to medium duty chassis cabs. If this is the case then I would guess that we would see the smaller engines here first. Also at the New York auto show MB was showing off 2 diesel suv's that are bound for the US apparently they were certified with European diesel which has slightly more sulfer than the new US fuel standard.

All it would require is a computer monitoring of the urea container with a low fluid warning and when empty the car goes into limp mod till seviced.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Here is a link to a website with a good discussion of blutec; how it works, how mercedes has used it succesfully, and how they propose to EPA to get it working in US. I suggest reading the link as it is a good simple explaination of the problem and solution to NOX reduction in diesels

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01 ... ysler.html

Taz · **Posted:** Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:20 am

vtdog wrote:

Here is a link to a website with a good discussion of blutec; how it works, how mercedes has used it succesfully, and how they propose to EPA to get it working in US. I suggest reading the link as it is a good simple explaination of the problem and solution to NOX reduction in diesels

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01 ... ysler.html

This is great information.

wolcott · **Joined:** Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:16 pm **Posts:** 108

I'd like to thank VTDOG for the website on BLUETEC, it is the first and only decent explanation I have seen of this system. Personally, I feel the EPA's objection to it is silly, there are a lot of engineering solutions, such as Old Navy's, that could be developed to ensure this system would stay in good operating condition, even if an occasional refill of it was needed. And, the EPA certainly doesn't worry about people maintaining their gas auto emission systems well. In some states that have annual inspection of emission systems, if the cost of repairing a non functional emission system is deemed excessive, the state and the EPA will let this failed system continue to operate even though it can be polluting the air very badly.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

the EPA certainly doesn't worry about people maintaining their gas auto emission systems

Nor do they require auto makers to put the vehicle in limp-in mode if someone removes a cat converter from their gasolene powered vehicle. They may say they are not biased against diesels, but their reluctance to approve SCR, their regulations changing one step ahead of available diesel emissions technology lead me to believe otherwise. They cannot deny that SCR technology meets their requirements, so they look for other reasons to object. This is far from an unbiased, "we can meet this challenge" attitude.

I agree with a poster from another forum - it's time for an overhaul of the EPA, not to let emissions regulations slide, but to replace the current regime with truly unbiased, solutions oriented personnel. While we as a country hemorage money on imported oil, our tax fed EPA quibbles about SCR technology.

If they want to promote clean air, let them tighten CO2 standards, a known GHG and problem for the environment, and relax the NOx to follow the Euro IV standard, with gradually increasing requirements on a longer timeline. NOx studies have controversial data points and evidence that it is not a major contributor to smog creation - it does not appear to be an unbiased viewpoint to insist on NOx reductions so stringently until it is well established that reducing NOx actually reduces smog. The weekend effect, well known to many Californians, seems to indicate otherwise.

wolcott · **Joined:** Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:16 pm **Posts:** 108

If DC can get BLUETEC approved, it will cause some changes in the existing smog setup. First, the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve (EGR valve) will no longer be needed--a huge plus, since the only reason for it to recirculate the exhaust gas is to reduce peak temperatures, which reduces NOx. Next, it will mean that a much better Closed Crankcase Ventilation system (CCV) will be required, since I doubt their catalysts in the exhaust will like having to break down the metallic additives that are used in engine oil (typically calcium and other metal organic compounds). It sounds like a Pro Vent or better will be needed. But, I think these changes will be a plus for diesel engines, I will have to try and write my congressman to see if they could get some action on this.

valkraider · **Posted:** Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:02 pm

wolcott wrote:

I'd like to thank VTDOG for the website on BLUETEC, it is the first and only decent explanation I have seen of this system.

OK, I am going to nitpick here.

That website is the SECOND result when you Google for "bluetec". And the THIRD link is another article almost exactly like it.

Not to mention the FIRST result is to Mercades' own bluetec website, which while it is annoyingly flash based, does have a lot of information as well.

Just like here in the fourms - a little search goes a long way...

OK, done nitpicking.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Val

I don't understand your point. Are you jealous because I posted the info? Upset due to the fact that I "only" listed the second article? I just don't get it.

FYI,

I did google blutec to learn more about it as I did not understand what it was from the prior postings. I am a chemist and had a curiosity about the reaction process that went beyond "how does it work". I found the article I posted to be the most precise and I was able to learn about the "chemistry" involved (I think there may be another way with pelltized urea in a form similar to that found in cat converters, but that is just a theory and out of my area of chemical expertise).

So, for everyone like me who reads these forums and is not a gear head I thought the listing I gave was the best. I'm sorry if it did not meet your standards. Next time, I suggest YOU take the time to do a google search and read the tech literature and give out the best information.

As stated in my original posting, what I showed was just a link, and I made no claim to original work.

valkraider · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:12 am

vtdog wrote:

Val

I don't understand your point. Are you jealous because I posted the info? Upset due to the fact that I "only" listed the second article? I just don't get it.

FYI,

I did google blutec to learn more about it as I did not understand what it was from the prior postings. I am a chemist and had a curiosity about the reaction process that went beyond "how does it work". I found the article I posted to be the most precise and I was able to learn about the "chemistry" involved (I think there may be another way with pelltized urea in a form similar to that found in cat converters, but that is just a theory and out of my area of chemical expertise).

So, for everyone like me who reads these forums and is not a gear head I thought the listing I gave was the best. I'm sorry if it did not meet your standards. Next time, I suggest YOU take the time to do a google search and read the tech literature and give out the best information.

As stated in my original posting, what I showed was just a link, and I made no claim to original work.

I am just pointing out - not for you because you clearly did Google - that simple searching is easy, and would have yeilded the same results without having to wait for someone else to google for you and post the link to the forum.

Both myself and Ripster *both* posted the links to the correct google searches.

Some people who never use search functions and expect others to do the searches for them.

It can be understandable if you come across something unique or rare - but in this case, the information was at the TOP of the google search. So when wolcott says:

"it is the first and only decent explanation I have seen of this system."

that clearly shows that they have not used Google at all...

I am not slamming anyone in particular. I am just pointing out that simple searches will often yeild the results you are looking for quickly, without waiting for people to post the information.

Seriously, nothing personal with anyone. Using the searching functionality saves a LOT of time.

Like when someone posts and says "Is anyone using biodiesel in the CRD?" you could answer that question easily just by doing a forum search on "biodiesel"...

yada yada yada...

It's all good...

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:30 pm

I would say sooner or later everybody asks a question that has already been asked, but so what? I've seen new posts on old topics yield new and valuable info. I think some of these posts are just conversation starters, and there is nothing wrong with that is there? If one wants a closed discussion that doesn't wander or repeat, try email or PM. I'll admit I put very little effort into searching for Blu Tec on the internet and just asked here instead. These threads don't happen in real time with everybody online at once and I figured somebody would have the info and several somebodies would discuss it. I just wish I had started it in a separate thread, but most of us are guilty of wandering. By the way, thanks all for the links and discussion on Blue Tec or whatever the spelling is. Mmmm - urea! :wink:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:03 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

I would say sooner or later everybody asks a question that has already been asked, but so what? I've seen new posts on old topics yield new and valuable info. I think some of these posts are just conversation starters, and there is nothing wrong with that is there? If one wants a closed discussion that doesn't wander or repeat, try email or PM. I'll admit I put very little effort into searching for Blu Tec on the internet and just asked here instead. These threads don't happen in real time with everybody online at once and I figured somebody would have the info and several somebodies would discuss it. I just wish I had started it in a separate thread, but most of us are guilty of wandering. By the way, thanks all for the links and discussion on Blue Tec or whatever the spelling is. Mmmm - urea! :wink:

My God I am too old to hold a discussion that doesn't wonder. I guess I would be in trouble either way. :wink:

jinstall · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:14 pm

Your just old look at your name

oh I forgot to tell you I pass a black 300M CRD on the way home everyday. Not on the way to work.

ITS OVER

Who is online