CRD won't start HELP!!!

Billwill · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:16 am

flyfisherman99 wrote:

Starting voltage while cranking is 12 volts +/- .5, the battery is new. I will order a cam sensor and try that. Them purge and prime again unless any one can direct me differently.

The ASD relay sits inside the relay/fuse box under the hood...its location is marked on the plastic cover.
Swap it out with a relay next to it that has the same part number. If the ASD relay is faulty the engine will not start and this is a quick way of testing it. :wink:

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:44 pm

flyfisherman99 wrote:

Starting voltage while cranking is 12 volts +/- .5, the battery is new. I will order a cam sensor and try that. Them purge and prime again unless any one can direct me differently.

If I am not mistaking, you need a little more voltage than 12.0 to start this vehicle.

Have you tried to jump it, or add more juice to it via a jumper?

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:00 pm

No, the 12 volts he says he metered is WHILE the engine is cranking. That is actually quite good, it means that the battery is holding its own against the load of the starter and the glow plugs.

There is another reason why it doesn't want to start right now, probably related to either the arm's-length list of codes (if they haven't been cleared yet) or lack of fuel into the rail.

I don't know if you have tried just unhooking the battery yet, but do try this. Leave it unhooked for about 5 minutes or so, and step on the brake for about 20 seconds to drain any residual power from the system as it tries to light the tail lights. This *might* clear the full-stop code problem from the computer, but will certainly force it to fully reboot itself. If there is fuel at the injectors, then it should light off when you reconnect the battery and try again.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:25 pm

geordi wrote:

This engine is EXTREMELY sensitive to not having enough power to start. If the computer doesn't have enough power, then it will reboot and your attempt to start will fail. I would leave the charger connected to the battery in the engine bay, and if it has a 10/15 amp mode, use that. Don't use the 200 amp boost mode, it won't really help you. The engine will eventually fire, but it will take time unfortunately.

I do not know about these vehicles, but the 1994 and newer GM diesels do not like booster chargers. I used a boost twice and each time had issues. Talked to others with similar results. On mine it took out the PMDs that run the injection pump.

Since then, I have stayed away from using any charger set to boost on any newer vehicles.

I am a big fan of load testing batteries as part of my diagnostics on anything. It only takes a minute and can save time, no matter what your issue is. Most newer diesels and many older ones seem sensitive to battery strength.

I also load test batteries when buying new, before I buy them. That is the result of having several New - bad batteries. A new part doesn't mean a good part. It's kind of surprising the variance when load testing various new batteries. I went through 4 batteries before I left with 2 on my last shopping spree

nicktb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:52 pm **Posts:** 65

Sounds like you need to check the fuel rail pressure. I just went through this with one I was working on. If the rail pressure is to low, you can crank all day and it will never start. The rail pressure needs to be around 4k-5k PSI to start properly, if its below that, you may need a CP3 pump...

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:09 pm

So... Did you check, double check, and triple check the wires that I had previously mentioned? It is a very simple thing to swap and/or check, and many have made this same mistake with the same symptoms. I suggest you try this before you spend too much time digging elsewhere.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:29 pm

Mike, he said that the factory tag was still on the injector #4 wire. I'm going to presume that he is smart enough to know that means it should connect to the injector and not the CPS....

He also said that it had tried to fire, sputtering. That wouldn't happen at all if the wires were swapped - the computer wouldn't know where the cams were, and when to inject the fuel.

flyfisherman99 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:47 am

Thanks for all the help everyone. I am certain the wire connections are correct. I did this by ohm checking the wires back to the ECM. The only place I have not looked is the crank sensor, but I get RPM indication on the tach, which I am assuming the crank sensor provides that information. I do jot have a gauge or computer to test my fuel rail pressure. I may be contacting GDE for some assistance if replacing the can sensor does not fix my issues. Any more help is greatly appreciated.

CGman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:12 am

flyfisherman99 wrote:

Thanks for all the help everyone. I am certain the wire connections are correct. I did this by ohm checking the wires back to the ECM. The only place I have not looked is the crank sensor, but I get RPM indication on the tach, which I am assuming the crank sensor provides that information. I do jot have a gauge or computer to test my fuel rail pressure. I may be contacting GDE for some assistance if replacing the can sensor does not fix my issues. Any more help is greatly appreciated.

that's a good question; does anyone know whether RPM on the dashboard is from crank or camshaft? Also, what's the best way to check fuel rail pressure? It didn't look like the OBDII was showing anything on the normal Torque program.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

rpm is from crank sensor.

CGman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:02 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

rpm is from crank sensor.

GDE, were you ever able to find anything out with any of the failed crankshaft sensors that you looked into? ( I'm still holding my breath on whether it solves my issues)

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:44 pm

Know Crank position sensor failures that have been posted have been heat related. Starts ok cold but won't start when hot. Diagnosis - pull sensor (turbo side of engine under heat shield and coolant tank - at viewtopic.php?f=98&t=74594 see images 7, 8, and 9); hook up volt/ohm meter; apply heat with like hand held hair dryer; if bad resistance will go nuts.

PN5066882AA or Bosch 0281002434 also apparently Standard Motor Products PC766 or Airtex 5S7000

PS - as I recall failure of this sensor will not throw a CEL or stored code.

flyfisherman99 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:54 pm

By what means do you measure rail pressure on starting? I have purged multiple times at the #4 injector and have had quite a bit of fuel coming out. At my his point I am ordering a cam sensor to see if that solves my problems.

onthefence · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:39 am **Posts:** 15

An OBD ii scanner can read fuel rail pressure. I'm having good success with the Torque pro android app and th the OBDLink MX bluetooth adapter.

flyfisherman99 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:45 am

had my fuel pressure tested during start attempt and found i am getting only 450psi while cranking. my advise of GDE i will need to replace my FUEL QUANTITY SOLENOID (MPROP). I have been told that if this does not fix the problem I will more than likely need to replace the pump. Apparently i have the dreaded P0093 code.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:36 pm

Bummer - Which sensor is that, the one on the end of the fuel rail or the side?

450psi certainly isn't enough to pop the injectors, no wonder it isn't starting. You would only be the second CRD I've heard about that needed a fuel pump however, so I'd think that it is the sensor rather than the pump. Be happy about that much.

flyfisherman99 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:31 pm

The fuel quantity solenoid is on the back side of the high pressure pump secured with 3 T-20 torx fasteners, it has one electrical connector with two wires.

Here is the technical description:
The fuel quantity solenoid is located in the back of the high pressure pump. The solenoid is pulse width modulated by the ECM and meters the amount of fuel that flows into the high pressure elements inside of the high pressure pump. The solenoid is also inactive during the first 30 seconds to allow maximum fuel pressure to the fuel rail during start up

The fuel quantity solenoid is a pulse width modulated valve that controls the amount of fuel sent or delayed to the high pressure pump elements inside of the high pressure pump. The ECM determines the fuel pressure set point based on engine sensor inputs. If the actual fuel rail pressure is too low, the ECM commands the solenoid to allow more fuel to flow to the high pressure pump. This minimizes the difference between the actual fuel rail pressure reading and the set point. The ECM will also operate the solenoid, delaying fuel if the fuel rail pressure becomes to high.

The fuel quantity solenoid is commanded open by the ECM to allow the high pressure pump to build maximum pressure (1600 BAR, 23,200 PSI ). the solenoid also has fuel tank heat protection function that meters the exact amount of fuel to prevent excess heated fuel from returning to the fuel tank.

flyfisherman99 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:12 am

Well everyone the jeep is still not running. I have replaced the high pressure pump due to suspected low output pressure. I am at a complete frustrating loss on where to go next. The pump that was installed came from a running CRD that was totaled. If anyone has any onsite on where to go next please help!

I am at the end of the rope with this and am contemplating cutting my losses and selling this boat anchor. If anyone would like to make me an offer on the Jeep, please feel free.

jsrmonster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:54 am

Immobilizer could prevent starts - Is the little red light lit - on bottom left of cluster?
How about ASV stuck closed? Does it crank faster than normal? Maybe u could try another ecu with immo delete.
Where are u located?
Jeff
edit never mind - s Mi, see keith @gde. ;-)

flyfisherman99 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:28 pm

Tach shows about 300RPM while cranking. What is the ASV? If you are referring to the electrically controlled valve on the intake, it is open. I do not recall seeing any red light on in the dash cluster but I will double check tomorrow. GDE - Keith assisted me once already so I think I will reach out to him again.

CRD won't start HELP!!!

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