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CRD won't start HELP!!!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79510		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  CRD won't start HELP!!!
Cranks but will not start. Bought the jeep in a non running condition. Replaced timing belt/components as well as ALL 16 rocker arms due to damage. I had the intake off, obviously and the fuel system was opened. I CAN get it to start on starting fluid but dies out. I have primed the fuel fliter and purged the air from it. DOUBLE CHECKED WIRE CONNECTIONS FOR SECURITY AND CORRECT PLACEMENT. I HAVE CRANKED THE ENGINE SO MUCH I KILLED THE STARTER, which i will be replacing later today. DO I NEED TO PURGE THE FUEL RAIL??? IF SO HOW IS THIS DONE?? This is my first diesel, I am a good mechanic but apparently I am no Diesel Savvy.

My wife is very upset that the Jeep is not running after all the money spent on parts. I hope some one can help soon.
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Couple of initial thoughts:
1. yes the fuel rail needs to be purged and to build enough pressure for the engine to fire off. Generally just a few cranks will be sufficient although it may run rough at first as the air in the rail gets fully purged. You can help a tiny bit by cracking the line to #4 injector and briefly cranking until fuel leaks from that fitting.
2. it won't fire if all the injector fitting are not tight and if the injector electrical plugs are loose
3. it also won't fire is you have mixed up the 2 identical electrical plugs in the same area - one goes to #4 injector and the other to one of the fuel rail sensors. If you have, commonly happens, have lost the label on the wiring that goes to #4 injector the mix-up is easy to do.

You might PM geordi and ask what it was that kept stoutdog's from firing right up. I remember the issue and I remember cracking the #4 fuel line fitting but that wasn't the solution and I'll be darned if I can remember what the solution was (wasn't reversed plugs I don't think)
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
I guess I am lucky on one thing, the lable is still intact on my #4 injector and it is connected to the correct spot. I will recheck all the other connectors for security once I replace the dead starter. I hope what I have is just a massive amount of air in the system preventing it from starting.
Author:  Hexus [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Yes, when these sit for a while they are dry as a bone. Pump the fuel plunger until it hurts, then pump it some more.

Also when you start, check your fuel lines to ensure they're all tight (Use a piece of paper, do NOT put HANDS/FINGERS down there!!!!!).

If your fuel rail has the tiniest leak, it won't build pressure and you won't get fire. Check all your connections to the injectors and the fuel rail itself, including the return line connections, etc.

It's probably one or the other in your case.
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Is there any way to check for power to the injectors? The fuse is good. Also I looked at the the flow control valve ( throttle) and it is wide open and does not cycle at all on start up FYI. Could the ECM be dead or have no power any checks to do there. I double checked my connectors again. I tried tonight to get it going and failed miserably waiting now for the brand new battery to charge back up after cranking and priming. The engine sounds great when it runs on a shot of ether but dies out. ANY AND ALL ADVISE IS APPRECIATED AND WELCOMED. Save me from my CRD!
Author:  geordi [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Ok... first thing: STOP USING ETHER. It isn't any good for the engine, and all you are doing is running the engine on not-diesel so it isn't purging the fuel rail out.

Step one: Purge the fuel line to the fuel pump. Pumping the plunger at the fuel filter does NOTHING unless you open the bleed screw (11mm) and let the air out! Close it up (don't over tighten) and pump the plunger until it is firm again. Repeat. Do this again and again until you get nothing but fuel from the bleeder screw. NOW, the fuel filter and fuel line to the pump are full.

Step two: Crack the #4 injector hard line at the fuel rail, and have someone else crank the motor for about 5 seconds. You should have fuel at that point, coming out from the loosened nut.

Tighten that nut back up and crank in this method: no more than 5 seconds cranking with 15 seconds rest in between. By the 4th or 5th cycle of this, it should have started.

Let it idle for at least 5-10 minutes, yes it WILL take that long to properly purge the air out, and it may make some very "interesting" and unhappy-Jeep kinds of sounds. In all likelihood, the noises are bad combustion, nothing to worry about. It will smooth out.
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
I did bleed the filter as you described. I will bleed the rail again and try the 5 second crank method instead of longer 10-15 second cranking periods. Some times the engine sounds like it wants to start but then cranking slows down again (battery was full charged initially). Are there any other checks to perform on the electrical side of things? I find it hard to believe that there is something else majorly wrong since the engine obviously ran before the timing belt related failure occurred.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
This engine is EXTREMELY sensitive to not having enough power to start. If the computer doesn't have enough power, then it will reboot and your attempt to start will fail. I would leave the charger connected to the battery in the engine bay, and if it has a 10/15 amp mode, use that. Don't use the 200 amp boost mode, it won't really help you. The engine will eventually fire, but it will take time unfortunately.
Author:  Billwill [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
What year is your KJ?

Have you checked all fuses...under the hood and inside the cabin?

Have you tried pulling error codes on it...although air-in-fuel problems usually do not throw a code.

Do you have any lights staying ON in the cluster while cranking....ie. the SKIS anti-theft light if SKIS is fitted.
First make sure all the lights on the cluster do come ON briefly when ignition is turned ON...in case a bulb has burnt out or a previous owner has disabled a cluster light!

Swap over the ASD relay and while you are there check with a volt-meter if the ASD relay is actually energizing...if I know the year your KJ was made I can look in the circuit diagrams and supply some more suggestions....you can try briefly jumping pins 30 and 87 inside the ASD relay socket to see if it fires up! :?
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
2005 liberty limited crd. I do not have a scanner. Do you need a DRBIII or can you use a normal OBDII scanner to read codes on this vehicle. What is ASD? This driving me crazy!
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
purge the fuel lines again. Still no luck to get it to start. if anyone lives in SE Michigan and can assist much help would be appreciated.I'm thinking of doing the unthinkable, and taking the vehicle to the dealership for repair. If things don't turn around soon I will be cutting my losses and putting the Jeep up for sale for what I have into it. Someone help please!
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
If by SE MI you count a bit west of Detroit then contact Keith at GDE http://www.greendieselengineering.com/g ... od=contact
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
I live only about 15 minutes from GDE. I will contact them for some advise after the holiday weekend. Maybe they have a scan tool to check if I have a sensor failed that is preventing it from starting. In the mean time if there are any other tips I can try feel free to chime in since I am getting nowhere fast.
Author:  MRausch82 [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Make sure you didn't mix up connections on the injectors/fuel rail. I think there is a connection in the back that is easily confused, many have done it. It will cause this issue. Also, as geordi has already said... DO NOT USE ETHER/STARTING FLUID IN THIS ENGINE! It is NOT a good idea in most small diesel engines with glow plugs due to the design. You CAN break piston rings, etc. by doing so. I have seen it before. Even though people have argued with me, I have first hand seen the damage when I have rebuilt engines. Not good.
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
well i did the key on off three times thing to read out stored codes in the ECM and found about 30 different codes and none of which to my knowledge would prevent the vehicle from starting. So i dug a little deeper in the forums and found that a bad cam sensor will prevent the vehicle from starting. I ohmed checked the wires and found no faults there. Does anyone any alternative way to confirm that hte cam sensor is bad besides putting a new one in, and potentially wasting $60?
Author:  geordi [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Get a good code reader (you should be able to borrow one from the auto parts store) and use it to CLEAR all those codes. When the battery gets low, the computer goes bonkers and all manner of codes are a possibility. NONE will be valid, but they could easily combine to push the computer into a "do not allow the engine to start" condition. This engine is a VERY VERY computer controlled beast, and when you turn the key, you aren't sending power through a relay into the starter. Not at all.

What you are doing is asking the computer for permission to start, then it checks through the entire list of sensors asking if each is ready to go... And then the COMPUTER decides to send power through to the starter.

You need the codes cleared before trying anything further, I'd bet money that one of those random codes has put the computer into a full-stop mode.
Author:  JieselDeep [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
What is your battery voltage with the charger unplugged and after the battery has set for a bit? How about the voltage while someone else is cranking? I've read many a story if having to replace a battery for the no-start condition but I don't remember the exact voltage needed. If I recall correctly, at a little but low voltage you get a crank but no fuel condition...
Author:  jrsavoie [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
MRausch82 wrote:
Make sure you didn't mix up connections on the injectors/fuel rail. I think there is a connection in the back that is easily confused, many have done it. It will cause this issue. Also, as geordi has already said... DO NOT USE ETHER/STARTING FLUID IN THIS ENGINE! It is NOT a good idea in most small diesel engines with glow plugs due to the design. You CAN break piston rings, etc. by doing so. I have seen it before. Even though people have argued with me, I have first hand seen the damage when I have rebuilt engines. Not good.


That is true of a bunch of newer than 1980 diesel engines. Especially 6.2 and 6.5 GM's
Author:  CGman [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Don't forget all the electrical system gremlins that will prevent the injectors from firing. My CRD is down with a (suspected) bad crankshaft position sensor. It will crank all day long and not not fire if the ECM isn't happy.
Author:  flyfisherman99 [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD won't start HELP!!!
Starting voltage while cranking is 12 volts +/- .5, the battery is new. I will order a cam sensor and try that. Them purge and prime again unless any one can direct me differently.
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