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| Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79532 |
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| Author: | Dennis MacGyver [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
I'm about to change my timing belt, 1st time on the CRD. I've done this job multiple times on a VW rabbit, BMW 524td, and a LR 300Tdi over the years. I'm not changing out the water pump this time (100K) so I won't be removing the cam drive gears. I have the cam shaft pins. Is there any reason that the space from the timing cover to the inside face of the radiator is not adequate to do the job ? Thanks, Dennis |
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| Author: | geordi [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
That is exactly how I do the job. Be aware, the shroud and the fan have to come out together, and the fan needs to be prevented from hitting the radiator. In a rare case, it could cause a leak. Modifying the shroud will prevent this half-baked design from risking your radiator in the future. Cut the shroud in half, just below the two bolt tabs - throw away the bottom half. It does NOTHING to help direct the air, this is a gasoline motor part that they just grabbed off the shelf. The fan moves plenty of air by itself. The top half (with the mounting bolts) becomes a safety cover to keep fingers out of the fan. You may also want to notch out the plastic so it clears the AC pressure port, and possibly nip the right-hand corner so it clears the metal AC hose. That metal AC hose should NOT BE FLEXED or you risk the connection at the end by the compressor. The low pressure AC hose (rubber and aluminum) can be moved as needed during the job. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
I STRONGLY suggest you replace the water pump. It is part of the cam drive system. If it fails, the valves hit the pistons. Buy a Graf from ID and just replace the front half. Also, replace thermostat so it runs at a better temp. DOC |
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| Author: | Dennis MacGyver [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
DOC4444 wrote: I STRONGLY suggest you replace the water pump. It is part of the cam drive system. If it fails, the valves hit the pistons. Buy a Graf from ID and just replace the front half. Also, replace thermostat so it runs at a better temp. DOC Doc, Can the front half of the water pump be replaced without having to pull the cam pulleys & the back plate of the belt shroud ? I don't want to pull the cams because that fancy/expensive gear holder is required to properly re-torque the gears. I plan on building my own gear holder but not this time around. Dennis |
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| Author: | Dennis MacGyver [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
DOC4444 wrote: I STRONGLY suggest you replace the water pump. It is part of the cam drive system. If it fails, the valves hit the pistons. Buy a Graf from ID and just replace the front half. Also, replace thermostat so it runs at a better temp. DOC Doc, Can the front half of the water pump be replaced without having to pull the cam pulleys & the back plate of the belt shroud ? I don't want to pull the cams because that fancy/expensive gear holder is required to properly re-torque the gears. I plan on building my own gear holder but not this time around. Dennis |
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| Author: | geordi [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
No. The inner cover blocks access to the front half of the water pump, and the cam gear pulleys do need to be removed to remove the inner cover. You don't need the factory tool however, the "universal sprocket buster" tool sold at IDparts is perfectly capable of being your counter-hold device, with an equal-length wrench (I use the big torque wrench from Home Depot) and the belt in place to offer further security in holding the gears from rotating. The main thing to know is that the pins CANNOT HOLD TORQUE and that the gears will need 80 ft-lbs to properly tighten them. |
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| Author: | Dennis MacGyver [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
geordi wrote: No. The inner cover blocks access to the front half of the water pump, and the cam gear pulleys do need to be removed to remove the inner cover. You don't need the factory tool however, the "universal sprocket buster" tool sold at IDparts is perfectly capable of being your counter-hold device, with an equal-length wrench (I use the big torque wrench from Home Depot) and the belt in place to offer further security in holding the gears from rotating. The main thing to know is that the pins CANNOT HOLD TORQUE and that the gears will need 80 ft-lbs to properly tighten them. Yes, I see that the pins are not up to the job of torquing the pulley gears. I just topped over the 100K mark this past week. New belt, idlers, and torsion pulley in hand. I'll check into the sprocket buster, thanks. How exactly does the sprocket buster work? Is yours grey or green ? Dennis |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
He has the green one. DOC |
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| Author: | geordi [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
The grey one has special tips on it for the newer VW engines. The green one (that I have, thanks doc) has regular studs on the end. Yes, you can just make this rather than buying it, but the important thing is how to use it. You place the studs into the large spaces between the spokes of a cam gear, and use its leverage to hold against the rotation force from your wrench trying to loosen or tighten the center bolt on that cam gear. You need to counter ONLY your own force - I would not suggest trying this with two people, as the force might not be exactly equal and the gear could move. This is also why I do it with the belt in place and tensioned, that adds another layer of force to hold the gear still. |
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| Author: | Dennis MacGyver [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
This was an easy job to do. Spent more time than needed making sure the 3 pins were in the proper holes and depths. Job took about 3.5 to 4 hours to do. Old belt was in good shape, no cracks or chipped/broken teeth. One surprising thing to see/discover is that crud & water COULD possibly enter the "belt chamber" because the cover is NOT sealed around the crank pulley/vibration dampener. I've never seen that before on a diesel. Mine's a "Trail Rated 4X4" but I think there would be trouble if one were to get into water that would be 12 inches or more. |
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| Author: | racertracer [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
Dennis MacGyver wrote: This was an easy job to do. Spent more time than needed making sure the 3 pins were in the proper holes and depths. Job took about 3.5 to 4 hours to do. Old belt was in good shape, no cracks or chipped/broken teeth. One surprising thing to see/discover is that crud & water COULD possibly enter the "belt chamber" because the cover is NOT sealed around the crank pulley/vibration dampener. I've never seen that before on a diesel. Mine's a "Trail Rated 4X4" but I think there would be trouble if one were to get into water that would be 12 inches or more. You're absolutely right and it did happen to a CRD owner in Louisiana who used his vehicle as a puddle jumper. The belt came off trashing his rockers due to the water that seeped into the belt chamber. He too was not aware that a trail rated jeep would not be water tight in those vital areas. RTV gasketing sealant would probably be a better way to seal the compartment after a timing belt change, unless the compartment has to have ventilation for some reason. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
Since the crankshaft pulley passes through the outer cover, and the hub rotates, I don't see how RTV will be able to seal the cover. The design isn't a strong one for water tightness, since the breathers for the transmission, transfer case, and pumpkins are all around the same height. "Trail rated" may be intended for mountain trails or desert rock trails... Not crossing rivers without the benefit of a bridge. Ahh, marketing. 
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
Trail rated? Yes Amphibious? No |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Timing Belt change without removing radiator, grill, etc |
I think trail rated is a badge invented for marketing purposes, and it should guarantee a minimum of suspension flex, clearance, including water crossing. Not sure what those values are though... http://m.jeep.com/en/4x4/trail_rated/ Apparently, 19 inch depth for water should be OK... But I doubt that the crank sits 19+ inches from ground... |
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