No compression #4 cylinder

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

I have had a problem with my #4 cylinder that has had me stumped so I finally took it in to a local shop where they have diagnosed the problem as no compression in the #4 cylinder and they recommend a new engine!!!!!
Obviously, this is a HUGE shock and I don't have the funds for a new engine. Knowing the above, what are my options? As of now, I don't know why there is no compression and have little experience with such problems so any insight would be great! thanks

Ken

mtnmed71 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:17 pm **Posts:** 20

Either the valves are not seating (my guess), or you have a piston and/or compression ring issue. I would start by pulling the head; if it passes a visual inspection, do a leak test. If you have to resleave the #4 cylinder, that is a lot more involved. If you can't do the work yourself, it will cost you some $$$$. What is the status on your glow plugs, did you have the #4 tip break off?

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

mtnmed71 wrote:

Either the valves are not seating (my guess), or you have a piston and/or compression ring issue. I would start by pulling the head; if it passes a visual inspection, do a leak test. If you have to resleave the #4 cylinder, that is a lot more involved. If you can't do the work yourself, it will cost you some $$$$. What is the status on your glow plugs, did you have the #4 tip break off?

Thank you for the response! Initially, I had a P304 code which is a misfire, but after doing my due diligence on the injector it was obvious it wasn't an injector issue so I took it in the shop. This morning is when they told me of the low to no compression on the #4.
I have no idea on what caused this, but I will certainly ask. Your response has given me some good questions to ask. Thanks!

Ken

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:35 pm

If you aren't running an ECO tune or similar from GDE then your EGR valve is causing some serious buildup inside your intake as well as the head itself. Even if you're running it, if you didn't remove the intake and clean it this is still a possibility.

This MIGHT (it's not entirely impossible or unlikely) just be an issue of the head and intake being clogged.

If you don't have any issues with your engine overheating, coolant loss, lost glow plug tip at #4, I'd say it's as likely a candidate as any for the loss of compression.

I don't recall many issues that weren't catastrophic failures where there was a wet sleeve issue on these engines, but take that with a grain of salt I guess.

These engines get misfire codes all the time for air in the fuel, make of that what you will, our fuel system is known to be a sieve for air and it's part of the design, without a lift pump, that we all grudgingly live with.

You could also have a rocker/lifter issue at the #4 cylinder, how's it been running?

You won't know until you take the intake off, which is an endeavor but by no means insurmountable, I've done it a handful of times now with no formal training, just willingness to get it done and hands-on experience.

If you haven't done your timing belt service, go ahead and plan it, because you're going past that point to check the intake.

Where are you located? We might have some people who can help.

mtnmed71 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:17 pm **Posts:** 20

mtbdemon wrote:

mtnmed71 wrote:

Either the valves are not seating (my guess), or you have a piston and/or compression ring issue. I would start by pulling the head; if it passes a visual inspection, do a leak test. If you have to resleave the #4 cylinder, that is a lot more involved. If you can't do the work yourself, it will cost you some $$$$. What is the status on your glow plugs, did you have the #4 tip break off?

Thank you for the response! Initially, I had a P304 code which is a misfire, but after doing my due diligence on the injector it was obvious it wasn't an injector issue so I took it in the shop. This morning is when they told me of the low to no compression on the #4.
I have no idea on what caused this, but I will certainly ask. Your response has given me some good questions to ask. Thanks!

Ken

I forgot to mention the head gasket (I don't know if you can have a gasket failure on compression without a coolant issue on this engine - unlikely). IF the diagnosis is correct, the head has to come off to see what is going on.

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

Hexus wrote:

If you aren't running an ECO tune or similar from GDE then your EGR valve is causing some serious buildup inside your intake as well as the head itself. Even if you're running it, if you didn't remove the intake and clean it this is still a possibility.

This MIGHT (it's not entirely impossible or unlikely) just be an issue of the head and intake being clogged.

If you don't have any issues with your engine overheating, coolant loss, lost glow plug tip at #4, I'd say it's as likely a candidate as any for the loss of compression.

I don't recall many issues that weren't catastrophic failures where there was a wet sleeve issue on these engines, but take that with a grain of salt I guess.

These engines get misfire codes all the time for air in the fuel, make of that what you will, our fuel system is known to be a sieve for air and it's part of the design, without a lift pump, that we all grudgingly live with.

You could also have a rocker/lifter issue at the #4 cylinder, how's it been running?

You won't know until you take the intake off, which is an endeavor but by no means insurmountable, I've done it a handful of times now with no formal training, just willingness to get it done and hands-on experience.

If you haven't done your timing belt service, go ahead and plan it, because you're going past that point to check the intake.

Where are you located? We might have some people who can help.

It runs extremely rough, but have had no lose of coolant or over heating.
I'm located in Portland Oregon and have taken it to a shop to start tearing it down. I have no experience with this type of work so I thought it best to let the professionals handle it, but the cost is going to be HIGH! Since I have never gone thru this, I wanted to educate myself a little on what to ask and look for. Thank you for all the insight!!

Ken

onthefence · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:39 am **Posts:** 15

Mtbdemon,

I'm just around the corner from you in Tigard. A few questions - how many miles were on the engine? which GDE tune do you have intalled? How long has the GDE tune been installed?

Thanks,
OTF

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

I have the Eco-Tune. 135K miles on the engine and I would guess that tune has been on the engine for about 15K miles

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

mtbdemon wrote:

I have had a problem with my #4 cylinder that has had me stumped so I finally took it in to a local shop where they have diagnosed the problem as no compression in the #4 cylinder and they recommend a new engine!!!!!
Obviously, this is a HUGE shock and I don't have the funds for a new engine. Knowing the above, what are my options? As of now, I don't know why there is no compression and have little experience with such problems so any insight would be great! thanks

Ken

Update-The engine is out and I should find out today what the major problem is. The question that I have is what should I have done while the engine is out beyond the obvious repair? I thought I would update the radiator fan and will take care of the timing belt, but anything else that would be good to have done while the engine is out? Keep in mind that money IS an object so I have to keep it within reason, like no new turbos and such :pepper:

Here is what my contact had to say
"Ken, The technician has the cylinder head and cams off the short block. There are extensive cam shaft/ rocker, lifter issues. The sum of the parts look like they may equal or exceed the cost of a long block. I am still working on numbers. Let's get together by phone or stop by Monday (or sometime next week) and we can discuss it further."

Any comments?

jthomas999 · **Joined:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:51 pm **Posts:** 98

Its about $5500 for a long block with a $3500 core.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:41 am

Assuming you have not dropped a valve and damaged a piston (easy enough to check) and all you need to do is deal with cams and rockers (probably an out of time issue) then a complete camshaft/rocker replacement "kit" is available from idParts at http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info ... ts_id=4123 for only $809.90 which is somewhat of a discount over the cost of the individual pieces.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:47 pm

My best guess from here is a bad rocker, or a broken glow plug tip that has jammed a valve slightly open, or possibly a chunk of carbon which has done the same. Keep us posted on the findings. It'd be a shame if they went to the trouble to pull the engine only to one of these things though...

flman · **Posted:** Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:20 am

MRausch82 wrote:

My best guess from here is a bad rocker, or a broken glow plug tip that has jammed a valve slightly open, or possibly a chunk of carbon which has done the same. Keep us posted on the findings. It'd be a shame if they went to the trouble to pull the engine only to one of these things though...

Sounds like it was overkill to pull the engine? The head can be easily pulled with out all this additional work.

I would be betting on a problem in the valves or rockers.

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

mtbdemon wrote:

I have had a problem with my #4 cylinder that has had me stumped so I finally took it in to a local shop where they have diagnosed the problem as no compression in the #4 cylinder and they recommend a new engine!!!!!
Obviously, this is a HUGE shock and I don't have the funds for a new engine. Knowing the above, what are my options? As of now, I don't know why there is no compression and have little experience with such problems so any insight would be great! thanks

Ken

Update-The engine is out and I should find out today what the major problem is. The question that I have is what should I have done while the engine is out beyond the obvious repair? I thought I would update the radiator fan and will take care of the timing belt, but anything else that would be good to have done while the engine is out? Keep in mind that money IS an object so I have to keep it within reason, like no new turbos and such :pepper:

Here is what my contact had to say
"Ken, The technician has the cylinder head and cams off the short block. There are extensive cam shaft/ rocker, lifter issues. The sum of the parts look like they may equal or exceed the cost of a long block. I am still working on numbers. Let's get together by phone or stop by Monday (or sometime next week) and we can discuss it further."

Any comments?

Thanks for the help on this!! I should be going by the shop to inspect and perhaps take pictures. ANY other comments and possible directions would be great. Thanks!

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:40 am

flman wrote:

Sounds like it was overkill to pull the engine? The head can be easily pulled with out all this additional work.

I would be betting on a problem in the valves or rockers.

My thoughts exactly. I hope the shop "is familiar with CRD's," but we know how that tends to usually work out, unfortunately.

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

MRausch82 wrote:

flman wrote:

Sounds like it was overkill to pull the engine? The head can be easily pulled with out all this additional work.

I would be betting on a problem in the valves or rockers.

My thoughts exactly. I hope the shop "is familiar with CRD's," but we know how that tends to usually work out, unfortunately.

HA! In my area? Not that I found and I went thru the list on this forum-It wasn't too helpful so I had to find someone that has a good rep in small truck diesels and go from there. The place I found sounds to be very reputable, but not familiar with the Jeep CRD. This forum has been my best resource thus far.......

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

So here is the very painful lowdown.
Broken rockers and metal running around the engine for who knows how long. Cylinder 3 and 4 seem to have a bit of blow by. After fully going thru the head, replacing rockers and cams, pulling the pan, checking bearings and cleaning all, it's getting close to buying a long block, and that would be without a year warranty that a long block would offer.
Total cost is $9000!!!!! I have no way of doing any of the work so my hands are basically tied. I have thought about doing the bare minimum, but I tend to hold on to my vehicles until the wheels fall off and I'm not the type to fix it well enough to only sell it so it becomes a problem for someone else......I'm going to do a it more research, but I'm a bit bummed right now.

Thanks again for all the help!

Ken

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:23 am

Ken, sorry to hear.

onthefence · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:39 am **Posts:** 15

mtbdemon wrote:

Broken rockers and metal running around the engine for who knows how long. Cylinder 3 and 4 seem to have a bit of blow by. After fully going thru the head, replacing rockers and cams, pulling the pan, checking bearings and cleaning all, it's getting close to buying a long block, and that would be without a year warranty that a long block would offer.
Total cost is $9000!!!!!

Hi Ken,

I used to know what I was talking when it came to engines (diesel or otherwise) but I have been out of the game for a long time. Hopefully others will chime in and tell you if I am all wet, BUT if it were me, my thought is that if the blowby is within spec for it's age and wear (and I suspect that it is), I would just repair or replace the head - depending on cost/warranty.. My thinking is that your filter should have kept any damaging metal chunks out of your actual lubrication system and that the lower end should be fine. I would be concerned as to why the rockers broke, however. Timing belt is my first thought. You said it had been running rough. Maybe the belt had skipped a tooth somehow? Not sure - but the cause of the RA failures should be identified...
I don't know what it would cost to rebuild your current head, but IDparts is offering a brand new head for $1759 which is a lot cheaper than a long block (currently backordered, but still....).. (http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info ... ts_id=3260)

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:51 pm

My thought is that unless something is wrong with the head, put a set of rockers and a timing belt kit as well as new glow plugs, and drive it. The metal may be a result of the rockers failing. If a rocker was failing due to the EGR system, it could run rough, skip the timing belt, and damage more rockers. I suspect this is what has happened. :2cents:

No compression #4 cylinder

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