HELP! Is my motor worth fixing? - update 1/24/2015

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:09 pm

Listening to the video, I'm not hearing anything bad, but it also wasn't ever above idle speed in the video.

Based on my experience, there is a decent chance that several of the rockers may need to be replaced, but you might as well replace all of them since it is the same amount of labor.

If you want some assistance with this, rocker replacement is one of the services that I offer for CRD owners. I would also strongly suggest installing the ARP head studs while you are in there, as again you are right at that point, and the benefits are many. The Weeks Elbow Kit also makes a nice add-on at this time, and makes the reassembly suck a lot less.

Steevo · **Posted:** Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:00 pm

So, I found some time over New Years vacation to get my head opened up.

I think I found the culprit. :furious:

4 or 5 rocker arms were collapsed like this. I inspected each camshaft thoroughly and didn't see any damage, so my best guess is that one of the cams slipped a couple teeth on the timing belt and crunched a few rocker arms.

The rest of the rockers looked like this (rollers spun freely, had no play to speak of).

Questions:

I can buy the rocker arms themselves for $180 (completely set of 16). eBay link. Is it safe to replace just the rocker arms themselves if the lifter arms are all in spec, or should I just spend the extra $150ish and get the complete rocker arm/lifter set from IDparts?

Whichever route I will take on the rocker arms I intend to...

- replace all 16 rocker arms (and maybe lifters).
- idparts.com water pump/timing belt kit (is there something better?)
- Sasquatchparts.com intake elbow/EGR delete kit
- Possibly install ARP studs (depends on funds; my budget is tight right now)
- A few new gaskets here and there

... and then button it all back up and cross my fingers. Thoughts? I'm thrilled to see a light at the end of the tunnel and would not have had the confidence to make it this far without the wonderful resources available through this forum.

Steevo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 pm

I think I'm just going to go with the idparts.com full set. At this point I just want to get her back on the road!

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 271

Steevo wrote:

I think I'm just going to go with the idparts.com full set. At this point I just want to get her back on the road!

I just finished what you are undertaking. I recommend the ARP studs to save any HG failures in the future. Recommend the entire kit from IDparts with the improved water pump (forgot the brand name). Use a new valve cover gasket and be very careful reinstalling the valve cover. I had to use alignment pins as per the FSM but made mine from some 90 cm M12/1.25 head bolts from a Advanced Auto Parts. Use a good torque wrench on the ARP studs that has a range up to 250 so you are operating in the middle. remember to torque the head to spec and in the sequence shown in the FSM. The IDparts kit comes with a new TB tensioner and TB idlers....etc. Reset Fuel Pump to witness marks along with crank at 90degrees ATDC. Yadi, yada.... You are this far so might as well do it all. I installed Weeks also and totally removed the EGR, EGR cooler, FCV, etc and attached the block off plate to the EGR input pipe. You will also have to plug the EGR Cooler water supply coming out of the head and plug the return over on the other side of the engine.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 271

taroo wrote:

Steevo wrote:

I think I'm just going to go with the idparts.com full set. At this point I just want to get her back on the road!

I just finished what you are undertaking. I recommend the ARP studs to save any HG failures in the future. Recommend the entire kit from IDparts with the improved water pump (forgot the brand name). Use a new valve cover gasket and be very careful reinstalling the valve cover. I had to use alignment pins as per the FSM but made mine from some 90 cm M12/1.25 head bolts from a Advanced Auto Parts. Use a good torque wrench on the ARP studs that has a range up to 250 so you are operating in the middle. remember to torque the head to spec and in the sequence shown in the FSM. The IDparts kit comes with a new TB tensioner and TB idlers....etc. Reset Fuel Pump to witness marks along with crank at 90degrees ATDC. Yadi, yada.... You are this far so might as well do it all. I installed Weeks also and totally removed the EGR, EGR cooler, FCV, etc and attached the block off plate to the EGR input pipe. You will also have to plug the EGR Cooler water supply coming out of the head and plug the return over on the other side of the engine.

Correction-remember to torque the valve cover to spec and in the FSM sequence. You can replace the head bolts with ARP studs one at a time using 130 ft Lbs in the center rows and 125 ft Lbs on the outside row. Geordi has all this documented on this board.

Steevo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:53 pm

I didn't order the ARP studs off the bat because I didn't experience any coolant loss or see any evidence of head gasket issues. Reading about people having factory bolts backed off to 80ft lbs on their own or snapping OEM bolts when re-rotorquing to 130 has me feeling a little bit squeamish. I will have to check finances but I am having trouble deciding between leaving the head alone (because it worked fine as it is) or doing the one at a time ARP swap.

This morning I ordered...

Timing belt kit w/Graf pump
Rocker arm/lifter set
Valve cover gasket
Injector crush washers/O-rings
Weeks kit

I will be making the valve cover guides from threaded rod which I can purchase locally.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:06 pm

DO NOT DO ANYTHING WITH THE FACTORY BOLTS - other than removing them. Other people's experiences have shown, unfortunately, that the torque-to-yield bolts truly cannot be trusted to do anything other than fail.

The only advice I can offer is this: Either replace them with the ARP studs (one at a time and torqued as Taroo said above) or do nothing at all to the bolts.

Steevo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:17 pm

Do you have any idea how long have people run a 2.8 on the original head gasket with studs, given that these are steel gaskets? I seem to recall reading that you have installed half a dozen sets of studs. I have trouble gauging how long they should last since most of the information I find is from people complaining about leaks due to the OEM bolts. I am running on fumes in my repair budget, but I definitely don't want to save $300 now just to have to buy studs and a new head gasket in a year and possibly repair a bunch of other components.

Steevo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:42 pm

Ended up ordering the studs too, and I am going to try to measure my bolt torque for the research thread.

Steevo · **Posted:** Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:44 pm

It's alive, so far anyway. http://youtu.be/LAnAOFrtFmA

Steevo · **Posted:** Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:11 pm

I do not have any HOAT coolant on hand, and my battery is toast, but I think everything is back together properly. I will try to take care of all that tomorrow.

Interestingly I discovered that this Liberty already has an inline thermostat installed. I had not noticed that when I first took it apart.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:31 pm

Congrats!

DOC

Steevo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:50 pm

30 mile test drive tonight with no hiccups and no engine codes other than the FCV/EGR alarms. I think I'm good to go!

user113 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:44 pm

Since you have the in-line thermostat, there was clearly some work done by someone other than the dealer. However, if your CEL is on because of the FCV/EGR, I recommend a GDE tune once your repair budget recuperates.

Steevo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:33 am

That was what I figured as well. The turbo and CAC hoses all look very recent with no cracks or deterioration that I can find (orange interior so I guess they would be the later version of the OEM hoses). They will be upgraded to Samco hoses soon enough.

As far as the CEL goes I have the appropriate cable to plug my laptop into the ECU. I will be playing around with some of the open source eco tunes that disable the light. I would like a GDE tune but it will be a while until I can afford that.

Steevo · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:41 pm

With the help of our good friend Yeti, I am running one of his custom mild tunes with no check engine light. 500 miles later, the motor still runs great. I am a happy camper!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:19 pm

What torque converter are you running with you yeti tune?
Any shudder?

Steevo · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:34 pm

I have the F37 recall but it was performed before I bought the vehicle. I don't believe the previous owner upgraded the converter beyond whatever the dealer did, but I am not certain.

I do experience some shudder but only if I increase throttle while climbing a hill in overdrive. Even then it is very minor, and only if my RPMs are down around 1400. It is way enough to avoid by either tapping the brake or hitting the OD switch on the shifter.

I will probably upgrade to a Hemi TC after a while, but I am not terribly worried about this one given my conservative driving habits.

HELP! Is my motor worth fixing? - update 1/24/2015

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