Dieselsite WW2 compressor wheel

hucorey · **Joined:** Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:29 am **Posts:** 378

I seen dieselsite now has a billet compressor wheel for our CRD's. Has anyone else installed one on their CRD? I have one on my Powerstroke and have had a noticeable difference in EGT's and mid to top end power.

Lancer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:46 am

At the risk of sounding stupid, what's a compressor wheel?

devilkin4 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:20 am

for a 129 bucks you cant beat the price just wonder how hard the install is and what benefits we get from it would be?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:34 am

Lancer wrote:

At the risk of sounding stupid, what's a compressor wheel?

LOL

At first I thought he was talking about the pulley for the AC compressor and thinking why
would A WWII Jeep have air conditioning.

Then I realized he was talking about the impellor (compressor wheel) inside the TURBO.

Not sure why a different impellor would effect EGT temps but I'm no turbo expert.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:44 am

Yes I have,

But its not the factory turbo so I can't compare. The factory wheel is 56mm, I'm using a 63mm.

Lancer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:47 am

Ahh right! I have no idea how easy it would be to install a new impeller in the turbo, but I suspect the answer is "not very!" It's not so much the cost of the impeller, more the cost/time/inconvenience/difficulty of fitting it/getting it fitted which would influence me, plus the question of the benefit of it as devilkin asked.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:00 am

The cost of the wheel is minimal when compared to the cost of the labor to have it swapped out. If you can do it yourself you'll save a lot, but you'll still have a few days of downtime. Its not as easy as taking the old one off and putting the new one on, slap it back on the jeep and done. Once the wheel is installed the turbo needs to be sent out to get balanced.

The billet wheels are machined from a solid chunk of metal, rather than cast like the factory. Doing this means they can change the wheel to make it better, without having to worry about mold reliefs, parting lines etc. The wicked wheels or "ww" do a number of things like reduce the hub area for greater intake area. Extend the impeller blades to "bite" into more air, and extended tips for more pressure. They seem like small differences, but my 63mm wheel flows the same as a 71mm cast wheel, but weighs less and takes up less space than the 71. Billet wheels will spool up sooner because of the reduced weight, and outflow the cast wheel while also running more efficient. I have my stock turbo out, I might get this wheel while its available and get it installed and put on the shelf in case I ever go back to it.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:17 am

flash7210 wrote:

Lancer wrote:

At the risk of sounding stupid, what's a compressor wheel?

LOL

At first I thought he was talking about the pulley for the AC compressor and thinking why
would A WWII Jeep have air conditioning.

Then I realized he was talking about the impellor (compressor wheel) inside the TURBO.

Not sure why a different impellor would effect EGT temps but I'm no turbo expert.

More boost for the same effort require to spin the turbo is my guess

It seems incredibly random that they came out with this now, 8-10 years after they stopped making our jeeps. I wonder if they have any before and after comparisons? I dont doubt that it helps but how much? Will we see benefits without a tune?

The issue i see with their claims is that we have the VNT turbo and the ECU is targeting a certain boost level based on RPM and throttle position(amount of fuel). Whether we have the billet wheel or not, the jeep is still going to target a pre-determined boost so without a tune specifically for the improved impeller it wont matter. Additionally, as diesel_guy figured out, the stock MAP sensor only goes to like 2.5 bar or 22 psig. This means it is almost maxed out with the factory boost levels, so the ecu would not be able to control much more boost anyways.

I cant see this helping in the peak HP department. Response/Lag, EGT's would improve regardless of tune i would think.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:25 pm

It would spool up sooner, and create cooler more efficient boost. Because the wheel flows more, the turbine won't have to work as hard, if it doesn't have to work as hard the vanes will be more open. More open vanes means less back pressure and an engine that breathes easier. Whether its enough to really notice I couldn't tell ya, little differences add up. Once you get to 22psi its mute, the computer can't see any higher pressure.

The 56mm wheel is used a lot. Its in the gt1756, 1856, 2056, 2256, and possibly the 2556.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:57 pm

mass-hole wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

Lancer wrote:

At the risk of sounding stupid, what's a compressor wheel?

LOL

At first I thought he was talking about the pulley for the AC compressor and thinking why
would A WWII Jeep have air conditioning.

Then I realized he was talking about the impellor (compressor wheel) inside the TURBO.

Not sure why a different impellor would effect EGT temps but I'm no turbo expert.

More boost for the same effort require to spin the turbo is my guess

It seems incredibly random that they came out with this now, 8-10 years after they stopped making our jeeps. I wonder if they have any before and after comparisons? I dont doubt that it helps but how much? Will we see benefits without a tune?

The issue i see with their claims is that we have the VNT turbo and the ECU is targeting a certain boost level based on RPM and throttle position(amount of fuel). Whether we have the billet wheel or not, the jeep is still going to target a pre-determined boost so without a tune specifically for the improved impeller it wont matter. Additionally, as diesel_guy figured out, the stock MAP sensor only goes to like 2.5 bar or 22 psig. This means it is almost maxed out with the factory boost levels, so the ecu would not be able to control much more boost anyways.

I cant see this helping in the peak HP department. Response/Lag, EGT's would improve regardless of tune i would think.

I do not remember if the info I have is 100% accurate, but fwiw this is what I remember: the stock bosch map is a 3 bar sensor (that's I think 40+ psi), at least this is what I got couple years ago from summit based on the old bosch part number (bch-0281002437) I had on my crd. Summit has this now for 65.97 and shows as a Mercedes Benz T-map sensor. The cheap one, 0281002845,is 23.97 at summit, and this one may be the 20-ish psi, which btw I think is more than enough for stock turbo. I wonder if the bosh 0281002437 wouldn't be a better choice for custom turbos, like the one diesel_guy86 has...

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:43 pm

Factory is 2.5 bar, that's what my sensor was, and it came right from GDE. If it varies from this it will throw a P0069 code with a CEL. It measures from true zero psi (-14.7) up to 22.03psi. I installed the highest rated I could find, a 3.5 bar good for up to 36psi, but kieth must not of got the scaling right cuz it throws the P0069 code.
Thermorex, do you have torque pro or equivalent? I'd like to know if it shows higher than 22psi on it.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:17 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Factory is 2.5 bar, that's what my sensor was, and it came right from GDE. If it varies from this it will throw a P0069 code with a CEL. It measures from true zero psi (-14.7) up to 22.03psi. I installed the highest rated I could find, a 3.5 bar good for up to 36psi, but kieth must not of got the scaling right cuz it throws the P0069 code.
Thermorex, do you have torque pro or equivalent? I'd like to know if it shows higher than 22psi on it.

With the Torquepro and the factory MAP in mine i have never seen above 21 psi. I dont know if that is limited by the ECU cutting boost or the MAP not going any higher though. The ECU boost map calls for something like 2250 or 2300 millibar

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:58 pm

That's 2.25-2.3 bar, or 18-19psi. So its probably cutting the boost back.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:51 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Factory is 2.5 bar, that's what my sensor was, and it came right from GDE. If it varies from this it will throw a P0069 code with a CEL. It measures from true zero psi (-14.7) up to 22.03psi. I installed the highest rated I could find, a 3.5 bar good for up to 36psi, but kieth must not of got the scaling right cuz it throws the P0069 code.
Thermorex, do you have torque pro or equivalent? I'd like to know if it shows higher than 22psi on it.

I'll look on my old sensor and confirm the model number, but I am sure right now I have the one with 3 bar, which is 43 and some change psi. Using the boost gauge, I've never seen past 21-22 psi, which I'd guess is where the computer cuts the vacuum for turbo. I can let you try the 3 bar if you want, or if you don't wanna throw the money to just buy one.

I can try using the torque pro and see the reading on the sensor, but I one doubt it would be much different, I guess the computer is limiting the boost by cutting the vacuum to the vnt, but in your case, with a custom tune and turbo, it may be a different story all together... Maybe you should ask Keith, he may know lots more about this 3 bar bosh sensor than all of us...

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:12 pm

I noticed that the webpage for the 7.3L PSD Wheel mentioned that you do not need to worry about balancing the turbo after so I emailed them about the CRD. They said the WWII is fully balanced and said that we would not need to re-balance the turbo after putting in the WWII.

I get that the WWII is balanced from the factory, but I dont see how that means the whole rotating assembly in the turbo would be balanced after the install. Does garrett balance the turbine, shafts and everything else separately so that each component could be interchanged?

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:17 pm

You are absolutely right, they are balanced, but an after install balance is always needed. Any turbo shop will tell you the same.

RockyMountainYote · **Joined:** Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:32 pm **Posts:** 77

The turbine and compressor wheel need to be balanced as an assembly!!!

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:37 pm

You cannot assemble a center housing rotating assembly (CHRA) of a turbo without balancing the entire unit AS BUILT. Little bits from the compressor wheel will be milled away by a computer to balance the unit, and it has to be spun at or above its operating RPM to ensure that it is fully even and doesn't develop a high speed wobble.

I didn't do this on the CHRA that I rebuilt, but I thought (wrongly) that because I was reusing everything except the center brass bearing, that it would be balanced and all would be well. I probably got it *close* in re-tightening the compressor wheel... But it still only lasted about 300 miles before starting to make unhappy noises on vehicle shutdown. I didn't leave it in service to let it eventually (rapidly) fail out. I elected to take a COMPLETE CHRA from another turbo with bad vanes, and use the good vane structure from the rebuilt to end up with FrankenTurbo. No balancing needed, and all vanes fully functional.

The Jeep ran with that until the engine failed for reasons unknown later.

hucorey · **Joined:** Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:29 am **Posts:** 378

For some reason I started this thread, this stupid are tapatalk app keeps kicking me off my subscribed threads. :?:

Not on the WW2. There is no need to balance these. I am running on of the style wheels in my F350 7.3 with a Garrett 38R and pushing 600hp easily and almost instantly hitting 40psi. No issues whatsoever with no rebalancing. Bob at Dieselsite has loads of versions of these for almost every common OEM diesel vehicle with more on the way. Some of these turbos are spinning in excess of 120,000rpms with no balance issues. He does a tremendous amount of R&D on these wheels way before they get released.

I may sound like I'm defending him, but he knows way more about this stuff than all of us combined and probably more. Or else he wouldn't be selling literally 1000's of these branded wheels. I'm all over the truck forums and diesel FB groups and I have never read one turbo failure.

So, if we could, please end the derail, and see if we get some legitimate info on one of these particularly one our beloved CRD's. :jeepin:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:21 pm

hucorey wrote:

For some reason I started this thread, this stupid are tapatalk app keeps kicking me off my subscribed threads. :?:

Not on the WW2. There is no need to balance these. I am running on of the style wheels in my F350 7.3 with a Garrett 38R and pushing 600hp easily and almost instantly hitting 40psi. No issues whatsoever with no rebalancing. Bob at Dieselsite has loads of versions of these for almost every common OEM diesel vehicle with more on the way. Some of these turbos are spinning in excess of 120,000rpms with no balance issues. He does a tremendous amount of R&D on these wheels way before they get released.

I may sound like I'm defending him, but he knows way more about this stuff than all of us combined and probably more. Or else he wouldn't be selling literally 1000's of these branded wheels. I'm all over the truck forums and diesel FB groups and I have never read one turbo failure.

So, if we could, please end the derail, and see if we get some legitimate info on one of these particularly one our beloved CRD's. :jeepin:

I dont think there is any knowledge on it. Someone must have it somewhere but I dont think they are on here. Maybe it was developed with the intention of being sold in the overseas market since they called out '05-'07 CRD's.

I wasnt trying to be a PITA but I find the whole balancing thing troublesome. it just doesnt make sense to me that the whole system could remain in balance after a major change like that. I dont doubt that the WW2 is perfectly balanced, its the rest of the CHRA im worried about. I am interested in the wheel and may pull the trigger. I want to see if I can find some more details on balancing first though.

Dieselsite WW2 compressor wheel

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