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New noise, heading to dealership
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7995		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  RedJeepCRD [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  New noise, heading to dealership
Well my wife called me today for the first time about our CRD. I got home and checked the noise she was hearing. The noise is coming from the throttle body. It’s a loud buzzing noise and even continues after you shut the jeep off. It’s loud enough to feel in the throttle body. Any guesses on what’s causing this? I’m taking it in to the dealership in the morning. I’m afraid to drive it very far for fear of the electronic throttle messing up.

Wes
Author:  oldnavy [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:06 pm ]
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Didn't know a diesel had a throttle body.
Author:  talstar [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:33 pm ]
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Just took mine in this morning for the same thing. Let you know what I find out.
Author:  loyalp [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
The service history of my CRD shows the throttle body was replaced at about 2500 miles. It has 9400 now, and it just went in for the transmission TSB.

I didn't think there would be a throttle body either, but the service manager showed me everything on a nice parts blow-up table.


-Loyal
Author:  sirroco [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:48 pm ]
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I had the same problem with mine at 2228 miles, took it into the shop and had the EGR PN#5142799-AA replaced. This problem showed no code only the noise. Problem resolved. At 3728 miles I had the reflash and transmission filter upgraded, again no fault code but was taking it in for no cruise control. The cruise cobtrol was the clock spring had pulled a wire off the switch in the steering wheel. At the time of this reflash the work order came back with a parts breakdown and aagin it showed that the 5142799-AA was replaced. This time there was no noise nor code. With all this I do want to say that my dealership was as cooperative as you can imagine. They even took into consideration my input regarding the TSB's that related to the transmission delay (which only occured a couple times).I left the truck with them overnight should they need to try to recreate the condition. The TSB's were done with no questions asked. Even during the test drive they evidently felt a vibration that I hadn't noticed and rebalanced all 4 tires. I had no transmission shudder which has been mentioned. Since the reflash I have noticed a smoother shift but overall it just feels nicer and has what I feel more pep.
I have never had any of the problems experienced by some other than that noise which was addressed at the dealership and I might say a dealer that I did not purchase the vehicle from. The dealership of purchase was backlogged and couldn't get to it for 5 days. I felt that I didn't want to risk damage so I contacted another dealer and they told me if I can have it there by 5:00 they would look at it the next day. They had to get the part but that was a next day deal. They wouldn't address the transmission filter saying that there was no code and that the Julian date didn't fall into that category.(which it did)
In all said I'm very happy with my CRD and also with the dealerships that has provided repairs. I give a big hats off to Fitzgerald Auto Mall in Clearwater Fl. for their service but most of all the line of comminications that were open throughout the repair. I don't doubt my decision on buying this truck I'm very familiar with VM Motori and have seen their engines in generator appications in severe environment running prime power 24-7. Plus if has Penske involvement its a winner.
One last note I'm using Shell Rotella 5-40 and running B-5 Bio. I have very little crankcase mist and my intercooler hoses are pretty clean. I have taken the hose from the ccv and do have some oil and will be installing and crankvent system. I believe that even if the engine is discontinued in the US market we will be ahead of the game and parts availability will not be an issue for the engine. Hope I haven't bored to many, but I've been reading this forum for quite some time and had not had any issues that I could relate to. The noise issue stirred my interest I felt I could shed some light on what had happened to me.
Author:  oldnavy [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
loyalp wrote:
The service history of my CRD shows the throttle body was replaced at about 2500 miles. It has 9400 now, and it just went in for the transmission TSB.

I didn't think there would be a throttle body either, but the service manager showed me everything on a nice parts blow-up table.


-Loyal
Look in FSM and see if you can find a throttle body for the CRD, diesels don't have them. He was probably talking about the EGR air flow control valve or the EGR itself. Lets hope the didn't just throw some BS in the system and not think it will kick back on them. Someone at warranty section of D/C should catch that and reject the warranty payment. Most I ever saw rejected by Chrysler was $97,000 and change, owner of dealership about stroked out.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
OldNavy is right. There is an air intake tube on the driver side of the CRD engine - it houses a combination anti-shudder/EGR mixer plate that when activated, reduces fresh air intake and increases vacuum pull on the egr from the egr line. That anti-shudder valve is electrically activated, and when the engine is shut off, closes, buzzes for about 30 seconds, then opens the valve again. I found that when the engine is first shut off, I could not read OBDII codes on the odometer if I did the 3 key on-off sequence while this valve was buzzing. Once it stopped, I can retrieve them.
Author:  RedJeepCRD [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry new to the CRD, didn't know what else to call it. It's buzzing all the time. I had the EGR replace at 4000 miles. I do have the provent and it's been installed since 4000 miles. I'm now at 17000 miles and I'm taking it in because of the buzzing noise and the transmission bucking like a horse at 50-60 mph. Wife just called and says the check engine light is now on. I'm going to plug it in to my autoxray when I get home in the morning and see what codes it gives before I take it in.

Wes
Author:  Ranger1 [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:00 pm ]
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Does your AutoXray read any Chrysler specific codes besides the generic OBDII emissions related data?
Author:  RedJeepCRD [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:22 am ]
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I'll let you know. I have to run the update but it should read all vehicles to 2008. Autoxray will provide updates until 2008. It has up to 2004 in it right now, just got to get the most recent update. Going to download it when I get home. I'll tell you when I scan it what it tells me.

Wes
Author:  RedJeepCRD [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:04 am ]
Post subject: 
OK, the new update for the AutoXray 4000 I have covers the 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. The code I got when I ran it was "P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculartion Flow Insufficient Detected." Well I guess she needs a new EGR valve. :( This will be number two even with the provent. I am getting closer to thinking that I will be trading for a 2007 Jeep Wrangler 4 door before the warranty runs out on my CRD. Luckly I have the 7 year 75000 mile warranty. I can't afford to keep putting the EGR's on ever 10000 miles after the warranty is up. It's kind of sad that Jeep hasn't fixed these EGR problems. I guess I'll be keeping the old Bronco as my tow vehicle after all. Maybe they can figure out whats wrong with the transmission while I got it in there.

Wes
Author:  Ranger1 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear about your 2nd egr valve. Mine went out with ~ 8K on it, even with a Provent installed at 2500 miles. The Provent keeps the intercooler and intake system from clogging up, but it can't keep high sulpher soot from coking and burning on the egr valve itself. My egr had hard burnt carbon on it, from the exhaust. Another owner who bought a CRD around the same time I did, and who moved to CA and used ULSD is still on his original egr. I think once we get to ULSD we should be fine. There is good news, once you get a new egr this time, it will only be a few months before you can run it on clean diesel. The other good news for long time owners is that the valve has been seen on jeep parts online for around $200.00 - so even when the warranty is gone, it can be fixed by diy's if necessary. I suspect once ULSD is here it will become almost a non issue.

As far as reading codes, all OBDII readers can read the generic OBDII codes, as Federal emissions law required those specs to be published. The codes I'm referring to on the Liberty are extended codes, with parameters like transmission temperatures, oil pressure, air conditioner pressure, fuel tank levels and so on. My AutoTap reads these extended codes on my 2002 Liberty, but will only read the generic codes on the CRD. Autotap does not advertise the fact that their product will not access these extended codes on an 05 CRD.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear about your 2nd egr valve. Mine went out with ~ 8K on it, even with a Provent installed at 2500 miles. The Provent keeps the intercooler and intake system from clogging up, but it can't keep high sulpher soot from coking and burning on the egr valve itself. My egr had hard burnt carbon on it, from the exhaust. Another owner who bought a CRD around the same time I did, and who moved to CA and used ULSD is still on his original egr. I think once we get to ULSD we should be fine. There is good news, once you get a new egr this time, it will only be a few months before you can run it on clean diesel. The other good news for long time owners is that the valve has been seen on jeep parts online for around $200.00 - so even when the warranty is gone, it can be fixed by diy's if necessary. I suspect once ULSD is here it will become almost a non issue.

As far as reading codes, all OBDII readers can read the generic OBDII codes, as Federal emissions law required those specs to be published. The codes I'm referring to on the Liberty are extended codes, with parameters like transmission temperatures, oil pressure, air conditioner pressure, fuel tank levels and so on. My AutoTap reads these extended codes on my 2002 Liberty, but will only read the generic codes on the CRD. Autotap does not advertise the fact that their product will not access these extended codes on an 05 CRD.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear about your 2nd egr valve. Mine went out with ~ 8K on it, even with a Provent installed at 2500 miles. The Provent keeps the intercooler and intake system from clogging up, but it can't keep high sulpher soot from coking and burning on the egr valve itself. My egr had hard burnt carbon on it, from the exhaust. Another owner who bought a CRD around the same time I did, and who moved to CA and used ULSD is still on his original egr. I think once we get to ULSD we should be fine. There is good news, once you get a new egr this time, it will only be a few months before you can run it on clean diesel. The other good news for long time owners is that the valve has been seen on jeep parts online for around $200.00 - so even when the warranty is gone, it can be fixed by diy's if necessary. I suspect once ULSD is here it will become almost a non issue.

As far as reading codes, all OBDII readers can read the generic OBDII codes, as Federal emissions law required those specs to be published. The codes I'm referring to on the Liberty are extended codes, with parameters like transmission temperatures, oil pressure, air conditioner pressure, fuel tank levels and so on. My AutoTap reads these extended codes on my 2002 Liberty, but will only read the generic codes on the CRD. Autotap does not advertise the fact that their product will not access these extended codes on an 05 CRD.
Author:  oldnavy [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:15 am ]
Post subject: 
RedJeepCRD wrote:
OK, the new update for the AutoXray 4000 I have covers the 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. The code I got when I ran it was "P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculartion Flow Insufficient Detected." Well I guess she needs a new EGR valve. :( This will be number two even with the provent. I am getting closer to thinking that I will be trading for a 2007 Jeep Wrangler 4 door before the warranty runs out on my CRD. Luckly I have the 7 year 75000 mile warranty. I can't afford to keep putting the EGR's on ever 10000 miles after the warranty is up. It's kind of sad that Jeep hasn't fixed these EGR problems. I guess I'll be keeping the old Bronco as my tow vehicle after all. Maybe they can figure out whats wrong with the transmission while I got it in there.

Wes
That is the code for EGR Flow Control Valve failure requiring a replacement. Mine has yet to come in at dealership, they ordered the EGR Valve by mistake and ended up having to order the Flow Control Valve a week later. So here I am about 3 weeks later still waiting for the correct part. Yes I am about to get a little warm under the collar and l'll be at the dealership today. :x
Author:  Ranger1 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:10 am ]
Post subject: 
P0401 can also be the code set if the egr valve gets stuck in a slightly open position, as mine did. If it does this it will usually set another code, P0299, which is low boost pressure, caused by the intake boost pressure bleeding down through the stuck egr valve. The egr control/anti shudder can also cause this by not closing enough to draw enough vacuum on the egr supply and change the MAF sensor flow rate decrease.

I found by experimentation that when fully warmed up, pulling into my driveway, the exhaust note at idle is lower for 75 to 80 seconds, then would suddenly change to a quieter sound, and the amount of exhaust at the tail pipe would increase considerably, right on schedule and it will do this consistently. I read that the egr valve will shut off after 60 seconds or so at idle to keep idle quality up. So, theorizing that the egr valve was closing and causing a quieter exhaust note, I pulled the the intercooler hose from the turbo to see what was happening when this occured. It surprised me - for the 75 to 80 seconds while the egr is open, exhaust note is low and rumbly, the turbo boost air coming out of the hose is very low. As soon as the egr clicks shut, the turbo boost jumps and starts putting a lot of boost out - you can see the vgt control rod change position and feel a tremendous whoosh of boost air even at idle when this occurs.

It makes sense to me that when the ECM commands the egr valve to open and the egr control flap to shut down to increase pull on the exhaust gas, that it would also turn the turbo boost down as well. If they didn't, the extra boost would push against the egr flow back toward the exhaust pipe instead of the intake. At least that's what I think is occuring. I don't know if it does this at cruising speed, but the more I learn about this egr behavior, the less I like it.
Author:  RedJeepCRD [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, guys I hate to admit this but I traded in my CRD. They told me it would be several days before it would be fixed and that was only if they could find the part. The part was back ordered. So I flipped out and traded it in. They gave me what I owed on it so I guess I didn't do to bad. I bought a 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. I'm really excited about this and I can't wait until I pick it up this afternoon. I know my MPG is going to make me cry but I couldn't deal with the trips to the dealer anymore. I'm a strong defender of the CRD's but I think I just end up with a lemon. Hopfully my Rubicon will be better for me.

Wes
Author:  Guest [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
RedJeepCRD wrote:
Well, guys I hate to admit this but I traded in my CRD. They told me it would be several days before it would be fixed and that was only if they could find the part. The part was back ordered. So I flipped out and traded it in. They gave me what I owed on it so I guess I didn't do to bad. I bought a 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. I'm really excited about this and I can't wait until I pick it up this afternoon. I know my MPG is going to make me cry but I couldn't deal with the trips to the dealer anymore. I'm a strong defender of the CRD's but I think I just end up with a lemon. Hopfully my Rubicon will be better for me.

Wes


Wow, that's a switch! As a fellow installer of a front mount hitch, you just got rid of a lot of sweat equity as well! You are right about MPG. Your average for city driving will be near 12 mpg with the old I-6 and 4:11 rear diff ratio. Auto or manual? (new manual 6-speed has been having problems as well) Keep your fingers crossed as the last year and a half of I-6 engines have seen drastic cost savings enhancements and have been having their own share of high failure rates... (mainly due to emissions requiring more electrical crap...)

But, maybe you'll have less down time. I have a sneaky feeling I'll have 2 or 3 transmission replacements under the 7/70 warranty...

No dbout your "fun factor" will go way up!!! :D

What are you going to pull the Fun Finder travel trailer with now, and how big was that trailer anyway??? Maybe the Rubi Unlimited could do it?
Author:  RedJeepCRD [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good question on the towing. I have my old 95 bronco still but I would like to see if I can setup the Rubicon Unlimited to pull it. It's only about 3500 pounds empty but that the max for the Rubicon and you can never really tow empty and go camping. May just have to pull the trailer with the bronco. Don't tell me anything about problems with the 6 speed. I might break out and cry at this point. I had the choice of an automatic and the 6 speed and chose the 6 speed thinking it was a really heavy duty piece.

Wes
Author:  cerich [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I sometimes feel we convince ourselves that big problems are just around the bend when we spend too much time on here....
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