Bzlack Smoke and knock or thumping sound?

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:40 am

OK driving home from work today got about 10 miles from home on a 40 mile trip and over the radio I notice a knock or thumping sound all the sudden. I turn the radio down and i notice there is a thumping sound and reduced power. I limp home and my wife tells me she sees a lot of smoke behind me but it dark so i didn't see it. She thinks it was black. I can here a deep thumping sound from the turbo side of the motor its amplified when I remove the air intake hose. Unplugged each injector and didn't notice any change. Read the codes and got

P0069
P0102
P1263

I have 192k miles TB replaced at 111K

Changed the oil about 2k miles ago but in checking tonight it was low, added two quarts looks like the Fumoto is leaking.
Let me know what you guys think

I don't think its good.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:22 am

I m leaning toward an injector over dumping fuel,

I unplugged each injector and didn't notice a difference but stopped and started the jeep each time. I will try it again with it running also in the daylight figure out the color of the smoke.

Would it be worth it to try and fill the filter with injector cleaner or is it too far gone if it is an injector?

Thanks

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:37 am

P0069 = MAP sensor
P0102 = MAF sensor
P1263 = glow plug (i think)

I'd start inspecting all your turbo hoses and intercooler for tears and leaks.
Then inspect your turbo for play on the impeller shaft.
May want the check the turbo vacuum boost actuator.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:47 am

Removed air intake to check turbo shaft, It didn't have any play.

I will check the hoses again but inspected them fairly well last night but it was dark. I do have Mishimoto hoses

Not familiar with checking the turbo vacuum boost actuator could you explain that.

RockyMountainYote · **Joined:** Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:32 pm **Posts:** 77

Your rockers/lifters are likely damaged. The thumping noise you are hearing is the exhaust puffing back into the intake manifold. It is easy to verify this: Remove the intercooler hose at the intercooler closest to the battery. start the vehicle and put your hand in front of the hose. You'll feel it puff outwards if a rocker is damaged. This isn't the end-all test, but is a sure indicator you have this problem if it is present. Let us know!

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:45 pm

Ok thanks I will check that when I get home from work.

Let me ask would this cause the smoke too?

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:03 pm

Video of the start up and smoke, I asked my wife to take a look since she was at home. See what you think, she gunned it a little hard but you can see it looks like more grey smoke, see if that changed anyone's opinions.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Ix-m ... sp=sharing

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:46 pm

CAC Hoses are both good. Didn't notice any push from the intake hose when i removed it and started the jeep.

The knock is definitely the intake side removing the hose made it very very noticeable.

Rev-ed to 2000RPM and pulled each injector connector, all 4 dropped it to 1500 RPM Don't think its an injector

Turbo is good and smooth.

I am back to rockers/lifters or a rod knock rod bearing.

Last note when i pulled the cac hose near the battery from the inter-cooler the engine surged a few times and as i put my hand in front of the hose it almost killed the engine, ( not completely covered )

If anyone could chime in i would certainly appreciate it.

RockyMountainYote · **Joined:** Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:32 pm **Posts:** 77

It will bellow black smoke with a damaged rocker/lifter because combustion will be incomplete

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:57 am

Listening to your video it sounds as if you have a rocker off or a busted lifter.

If I had to guess I'd say your primary problem is on the #3 cylinder, exhaust and intake side.

Regardless, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but you have some work to do. There's lots of people here who can offer advice, and some who can lend a hand or do the work depending on where you live.

From this point forward, every time you start it you risk damaging your cams more than they already may be, I would advise strongly against it. If it needs to go somewhere, have it towed.

Best of luck, regardless how you choose to proceed.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:42 pm

Thanks for the info we are going to start the tear down today and see what we find i will keep you posted.

Again thanks for all the help.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:32 pm

Sorry I'm late to the party. Yes, that video does seem to indicate broken rockers. Note I said plural - the noise is too fast for just one, and doesn't sound anything like the rod knock damage I had. This is a good thing, fixing the rockers is annoying, but much easier than the rods.

If you need assistance, we are here to help. Best of luck on the tear down.
Be sure to label the injectors and keep them in order. Ditto for the cable connections.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:40 pm

geordi wrote:

Sorry I'm late to the party. Yes, that video does seem to indicate broken rockers. Note I said plural - the noise is too fast for just one, and doesn't sound anything like the rod knock damage I had. This is a good thing, fixing the rockers is annoying, but much easier than the rods.

If you need assistance, we are here to help. Best of luck on the tear down.
Be sure to label the injectors and keep them in order. Ditto for the cable connections.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Butterfly band-aids work great to label wiring for the injectors and cam position sensor, just fold them around the wire and write on the tabs that stick out.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Well whomever said rockers, you were correct

Tear down is complete 4 Broken and one completely seized (roller). $ or 5 loose and the rest look ok.

I will place an order with id parts Monday and get everything on the way

Anything else i should look out for.

I will also do the TB since I am due at 200k

Original Water pump still looks ok but i think i will replace it.

Also will have the injectors tested this week.

Thanks for all the help guys photos to come.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:47 pm

Graf water pump in the timing kit (the basic timing kit) is the best option, just replace the front half of the pump and that part is done.

I would also strongly suggest ARP studs since you are already in there. IDparts sells them, and the factory bolts are untrustworthy crap. If you are game for an upgrade that will make reassembly suck a bit less, the Weeks101 elbow kit is a very nice upgrade too, and easy to install now when everything is off the top.

Apparently the timing kit is on sale TODAY ONLY, so you may want to get on the stick right now and place that order - yeah it won't ship until Monday, but hey: money saved.

Glad it was what we suspected, good luck getting it put back together again.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:32 pm

I am not familiar with the Weeks 101 how do I get one looks interesting

Studs are more than I thought we will see if I can fit those in depends on how the injectors test out

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:05 pm

I can virtually guarantee that your injectors are *just fine* and won't need anything. IIRC, there have been a number of members that have changed their injectors on the (bad) advice of dealers and clueless shops, and NONE that have had a failed injector.

These injectors are some quality components. As an added benefit, since the injectors are on the top of the outside of the intake... Put in the studs and try everything back together again, and if it sounds normal, you are golden. If not, THEN think about the injectors. I'm 95% that you won't have any problems with them, and it would just be wasting money that is better suited to buying upgrades that you *need* like the studs. So far, more than a handful have found loose or uneven torque in the head bolts, that WILL CAUSE a head gasket leak at some point eventually. This is not conjecture, this has borne out on too many CRDs to be a statistical anomaly.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:10 pm

Replacing studs only or so I need to pull the head and replace gasket?

Since the injectors are on too I will take that advise and let them go thanks

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:37 pm

Replacing the bolts with studs - you don't need to disassemble anything else to do it (the bolts are right there in front of you now) and you can do them in any order you'd like. Just one at a time, loosen (PLEASE follow our procedure to record the removal torque and save the numbers for the group here - I will post those directions in a moment) remove the bolt, install the stud with the lubricated nut and washer already on the stud - flush with the top of the stud - and run it into the block just finger-tight once the washer contacts the head. Then, go to town on that nut with your torque wrench.

For the two center rows that directly border the cylinders, the full torque is 130lb-ft. For the outside rows, the torque is 120lb-ft.
Use a quality and BIG click wrench, I use the 30" $80 one from Home Depot.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:40 pm

Directions to record factory bolt torque:

If you aren't having a loss of coolant more often than once per year, it is entirely plausible that you have not had a significant leak, and can forego the gasket at this time, in favor of just installing the studs. Please do two things however:

1: Understand that there is always the chance that you will be back in there to do the gasket if the leak reappears.

2: Measure the breaking force for each bolt, and report back to us to add to the collective knowledge of this job on these engines.

Measuring the force is fairly simple: Using your large click torque wrench (I use the $80 30 inch one from Home Depot - it clicks in both directions) set the torque to 80 lb-ft, and attempt to crack the bolt. If the wrench clicks (it should) increase the setting to 85, and try again. Continue increasing 5 lbs at a time. At the point that the bolt releases and the wrench does NOT click - that is the release torque. I made a chart of the bolt numbers according to the book's tightening sequence (I usually clean the head and write the numbers in sharpie directly on the head next to the bolt hole) and record the torque on that chart so that it can be shared with the board.

The critical ones to watch for are directly bordering the cylinders, on the exhaust side between or around cylinder #3. That seems to be the place that the torque is wildly different for some reason. I am curious to know the values on your engine because of this.

Bzlack Smoke and knock or thumping sound?

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