The Shudder | 06 CRD Ltd.

harbrlife · **Posted:** Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:06 pm

My barely noticeable "Shudder" has gotten worse after this summer's recent events:

1. replacement of blown IC hose to FCV.
2. 250 mile trip towing a 3000lb boat.

I understand that my (Nov 2005) manufacture date, disqualifies me for the widely discussed TSB's or the F31, F37 to be done.

Any further suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!!
Dealer cannot get me in for at least a week.

Bob
06 CRD Ltd. (107000 miles)

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:49 pm

Can I assume at 107,000 miles you have had the timing belt job done? If not do so as immediately as possible; shudder can wait.

At what speed does the final gear shift occur. Pre-F37 or with the GDE regular TCM tune it's about 57mph vs. post F37 it's about 62-63mph. If the latter then F37 was done. Alternatively you can go to the Jeep Web site section for owners and check for outstanding recalls based on your VIN; if none then F37 was done.

Shudder is related to springs in the torque converter being too weak for the strain "heavy" use puts on the torque converter (ex. pulling a heavy load up hill in too high a gear or installing the GDE Stage II turbo and stomping the "go" pedal before upgrading the torque converter). If it occurs in the going uphill situation it can be instantly stopped by hitting the overdrive "kill" switch on the gear shift lever; at least that was all we needed to do the 3-4 times we got very slight shudder while taking stoutdog to his new job in NE in a fully loaded CRD towing a fully loaded uhaul 5X8 trailer. However, if it becomes a semi-constant problem in normal driving then you will need to upgrade your torque converter to the Euro (see IdParts) or a Suncoast (Ft. Walton Beach, FL) and it's a good idea while in there to upgrade to the new style transmission front pump.

harbrlife · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:14 pm

Based on your response & some reading...I feel me recent trip towing our boat as well as my not so delicate driving habits has exhausted this TC.
My 05 had a Suncoast TC in it & NEVER gave me an issue.

Thank you.

harbrlife · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:50 pm

FYI....yes, Timing Belt was done.
Bob

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:14 pm

Sounds like it is time for a Suncoast. :wink:

If you do, be sure and get the front pump assembly replaced while the tranny is out for the TC replacement... :roll:

harbrlife · **Posted:** Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:15 pm

Update: All fluids checked out clean & proper level. Over the last week the noise / shudder has gone away. Driving in 2WD for a while to see if there is a difference. Not changing my daily driving habits though. Towing season is over. Will see....

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:47 pm

The increased shudder resulted from the increased loading while towing - the reduced shudder is resulted as the TCM relearns the reduced-load driving style

Your '06 should not require installation of the improved front pump\seal plate, but you should ask the dealer if he will substitute the torque convertor from the 5.7L hemi truck, rather than the still slippy\slushy 'euro' version - it's the same TC as sold by SUNCOAST, but without the upgrades they install to handle drag-racing - the KEVLAR clutches and billet front cover are not needed by the lighter KJ, even if occasionally used for drag-racing - some dealers will substitute at dealer's cost, which is much less than a SUNCOAST, and cannot affect any warranty considerations on a 5yr-50kmi\6yr-100kmi 2006 vehicle - the resulting driving experience will more than compensate you for the small additional dealer charge............

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:10 pm

GMCTD,

What do you think about using a used one?

I have the GDE hot tune with the latest OEM TC and it shudders with the Hot Tune, so I was thinking of replacing it.

I know where there is a wrecked RAM 2500 with a 5.7..... what do you think about using a used TC?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:27 pm

Pay close attention to the over-all condition of the truck, such that it shows to have been subjected to no or little abuse -check the fluid for metal particles such as you would see in metallic paint - if all is pristine, go for it -

The oem pump\cover required three (count 'em: 3) seals:
- large o'ring between case and cover
- large seal cover-to-pump snout o.d.
- 'nuther seal inner pump snout i.d. to TC drive hub

The F37 upgraded pump and cover required only two (2) seals -
- large o'ring between case and cover
- seal inner cover i.d. to TC drive hub

A very late '05 and '06 KJ should not require the replacement front pump\cover, but some dealers short-changed owners on the F37 upgrade, so you will need to look closely
- if upgraded, you will still require a new front seal for the front pump to TC drive hub

All else is identical, standard swap-out procedures apply -
- be sure to lubricate the replacement TC drive hub with DCJ +4 ATF (iirc)
- rotate the the TC as you insert it into the pump to allow the drive hub to mate-up with the inner pump gear
- TC will then fully seat within the front pump

Be prapared for more off-line and low-rpm torque, firmer shifts, and the tighter fluid coupling will reduce the desire for early TCC lockup.......................

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:15 am

gmctd wrote:

Pay close attention to the over-all condition of the truck, such that it shows to have been subjected to no or little abuse -check the fluid for metal particles such as you would see in metallic paint - if all is pristine, go for it -

The oem pump\cover required three (count 'em: 3) seals:
- large o'ring between case and cover
- large seal cover-to-pump snout o.d.
- 'nuther seal inner pump snout i.d. to TC drive hub

The F37 upgraded pump and cover required only two (2) seals -
- large o'ring between case and cover
- seal inner cover i.d. to TC drive hub

A very late '05 and '06 KJ should not require the replacement front pump\cover, but some dealers short-changed owners on the F37 upgrade, so you will need to look closely
- if upgraded, you will still require a new front seal for the front pump to TC drive hub

All else is identical, standard swap-out procedures apply -
- be sure to lubricate the replacement TC drive hub with DCJ +4 ATF (iirc)
- rotate the the TC as you insert it into the pump to allow the drive hub to mate-up with the inner pump gear
- TC will then fully seat within the front pump

Be prapared for more off-line and low-rpm torque, firmer shifts, and the tighter fluid coupling will reduce the desire for early TCC lockup.......................

So the RAM TC has a lower stall speed then? This is great info, glad you chimed in.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:58 pm

If you are going in to replace the TC and you got a lot of miles on the transmission, you diffidently would want to replace the front pump assembly. According to my long time friend and transmission specialist; there are some plungers/pistons inside bores located within the front pump housing that wear over time and leak by. And that is why the front pump/housing should be replaced when removing the transmission if it has a lot of miles on it. :roll:

There are some threads on the net concerning this issue if you would like to read all about it.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:18 pm

As the lazy surgeon was overheard to say: "Suture self"..................................

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:58 am

I just got shudder for the first time this morning as I merged onto the highway. Not sure why then because I tried to repeat it but it wouldn't do it and I have never been able to get it to do it before even with my Hot tune. It felt just like someone using an impact driver on my seat as people described. I am supposed to tow a 5000 lb boat this weekend so i hope it doesn't give me trouble.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:42 am

I am wondering if the OEM Torque Converter that Chrysler offers off the shelf today, and the one that was installed in my rebuilt transmission by the dealer last year, isn't the same one that we are talking about right now. I am wondering if the RAM Hemi TC isn't the same one that Chrysler is offering in their CRD today.

Because if it is, then it will surely be shudder prone as the one I have now.

I have the GDE hot tune and I feel shudder while traveling up hill at highway speed.

The transmission works great but the TC is weak while using the Hot Tune.

???

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:22 am

Wonder no more, then, because the HEMI TC is similar to the 3.7\4.7\2.8KJ\"EURO" TC only in size and shape - pics\comparison are in my original Suncoast install post back in ought 7 or ought 8 - the "EURO" version just gets stiffer springs in the hub, intended to absorb the shudder, NOT prevent it - those who have ridden a bicycle, then ridden a motorcycle can fully appreciate how springs can absorb bump, shock, and shudder.

It is always beneficial to research the tremendous volume of factual information presented on this forum...................... :idea:

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:35 am

Thank you for responding, I appreciate the advice. glad you're back.

Racertracer

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:31 pm

The only 100% sure fire way to prevent ANY shudder is to get a Suncoast TC, replace the front pump assembly while the transmission is out, and install a Transgo Kit all at the same time! All other options just do not measure up if you are looking for the absolute best bullet proof option available.... :wink:

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:39 pm

Doing anything, or doing nothing, to the KJ is not going to prevent shutter - not entirely sure why you would want to, anyway - a shutter is that thing on either side of a window on some houses, intended to be shut, or closed (shuttered), as protection for the glass window panes in high winds, such as windstorm, tornado, hurricane - or even, insulation in winter climes - and, under which conditions, even after shuttering the windows, you might have a tendency to shudder, depending on your reaction to a lower temperature with increased humidity (rains a lot here in TEXAS winters).

However, the CRD KJ's, notably already without shutters (no need to prevent them here, eh), have displayed some tendency to shudder as power is enhanced, even with the Suncoast TC - has to do with short wheelbases, driveline angles, unibody construction, drivetrain cradles, liquid-filled insulators, Diesel engine harmonics resulted from combustion events, etc - word up, dude...................

harbrlife · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:50 pm

Thanks for all the feedback. So the all the noise from this shudder started to get quiet. But I could still feel the shudder. So I found a dirt road & engaged the 4HI & 4LO wheel drive. Returned to 2WD...as expected Noise & Shudder resumed. From what I'm reading as well as past experience Suncoast is the answer?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:26 pm

harbrlife wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback. So the all the noise from this shudder started to get quiet. But I could still feel the shudder. So I found a dirt road & engaged the 4HI & 4LO wheel drive. Returned to 2WD...as expected Noise & Shudder resumed. From what I'm reading as well as past experience Suncoast is the answer?

Suncoast is the answer if you want the best bullet proof TC available on the market! It is not cheap and you get what you pay for in the long run in most cases...
I personally do not believe that you can produce enough HP/torque out of a VM 2.8 diesel to cause a TC SHUDDER while running a Suncoast TC with a properly equipped new front pump assembly and TransGo kit... :2cents:

Believe me, I have tried hard to make it SHUDDER or slip with my stage IV Hot tune with no success.... :wink:

Read this thread, it will enlighten you on TC's http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78775&hilit=suncoast

Suncoast is a billet TC, much heavier than euro, and it was stated that this will help the CRD engine smooth out the pluses (and it does) somewhat and it is much stronger.
Some on this forum have shared they have experienced chatter or SHUDDER with a new Euro TC right after install.
Mopar Euro TC is rated for 400 ft. lbs. max (~ 542 Nm)
Suncoast CRD-1ES TC is rated for 600 ft. lbs. max (813 Nm)
It's your choice; you want the best available, or something less.
I will say that the recent info discussed on the Hemi TC may be another option; we have just not seen the specifications on that TC as of yet... :idea:

If someone could post, that would give some comparison numbers to make an informed decision on this matter... :dizzy:

The Shudder | 06 CRD Ltd.

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