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| Author: | lacabrera [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Filter head |
Just found the reason for so much air entering the fuel system. I have the series one filter head which is allowing air to enter the fuel line. If only I had removed my recon fuel filter head before departing with my 2003 crd. I understand series two is improved. Any one got any advice on this subject. Best price I can find this side of the pond £145.00 plus £18.00 for the pigtail. $230+- |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
On that 1s gen filter head air typically enters thru the heater element plug (smaller of the 2 plugs) and an easy check for a leak there is to pull the plug. A leak can be obvious (press the primer plunger and fuel squirts out of the plug) or not obvious (stick a "Q" tip in the plug and sniff it for diesel smell); my leak was the latter. The parts (68043089AA and 68043086AA) run a bit less in the US but the head unit is quite large so even if you could find someone who ships to the UK shipping would likely eat up any savings (PM lancer to see if he has a cheaper source). I will note that the new head unit comes with a brand new fuel filter and WIF sensor installed. |
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| Author: | lacabrera [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
papaindigo wrote: On that 1s gen filter head air typically enters thru the heater element plug (smaller of the 2 plugs) and an easy check for a leak there is to pull the plug. A leak can be obvious (press the primer plunger and fuel squirts out of the plug) or not obvious (stick a "Q" tip in the plug and sniff it for diesel smell); my leak was the latter. The parts (68043089AA and 68043086AA) run a bit less in the US but the head unit is quite large so even if you could find someone who ships to the UK shipping would likely eat up any savings (PM lancer to see if he has a cheaper source). I will note that the new head unit comes with a brand new fuel filter and WIF sensor installed. Hi papaindigo Yes it is leaking at the heater plug, I have pulled the plug and filled it with silicon until I purchase a new head. That has helped but still getting air. Think I install a lift pump at some point. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
An in tank lift pump is the only 100% sure way to make sure no air can enter the fuel system! Asking the injection pump to suck the fuel all the way from the tank through a filter was a bad design! One of the best mods I ever did to my CRD... system is under 13-14 psig positive pressure at all times while engine is running. 
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
Be that as it may - front mounted fuel pumps were in use for decades before in tank ones. IMHO I'd point a much more pointed finger at the totally unnecessary use of quick disconnect fittings as I've seen way too many of them leak. Since the CRD uses the same quick disconnects as for the gasser KJ, which has a typical in tank pump, it's not too surprising to find those fittings prone to leak air in as they were designed to keep gas that's under pressure from leaking out. In any case lacabrera does need to replace the fuel filter head since it's obvious that his fuel heater element has burned out which is not a good thing. IMHO the next step if he wants to take it and considering prices in the UK would be to remove both quick disconnect fittings in the fuel line that runs TO the injector pump. That should be relatively simple to do 1) run the tank down until the low fuel light comes on; 2) drop the tank (how to is at http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/); 3) cut both quick disconnects out of the line and replace with appropriate lengths of marine grade diesel fuel line and stainless steel worm clamps (cost should be less than $20 even at UK prices); 4) reinstall tank. Don't misunderstand me. I'm fine with the in tank or in line pump option; it's just that I think the underlying cause can be fixed for a lot less money. |
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| Author: | lacabrera [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
WWDiesel wrote: An in tank lift pump is the only 100% sure way to make sure no air can enter the fuel system! Asking the injection pump to suck the fuel all the way from the tank through a filter was a bad design! One of the best mods I ever did to my CRD... system is under 13-14 psig positive pressure at all times while engine is running. I have been searching on ebay and can pick up an inline pump fairly cheaply and I am thinking of mounting it close to the tank. Before I go any further has the gas kj use a in tank pump that I could pick up from donor car and install it in diesel kj tank? Also is the fuel heater in the filter head really necessary, temperature here rarely drops below freezing. I have found a new filter head minus heater and hand pump for few bucks. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
Read this thread:'http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78950&hilit=fuel+pump It covers the in tank pump... 
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| Author: | gmctd [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
The FI gasoline KJ intank pump makes the 58psi required for that injection system- way too much pressure for the Diesel system, which wants 9-14psi at the CP3 - if you find a 2500-3500 RAM Diesel pump, the plastic should not be dark-colored, which would mean the p.o. had been recycling old crankcase oil thru the system - this definitely damages the motor armature, brushes, and bearings, with result that the pump does not always start, and stops erratically - if the coloration is close to that pictured, likely the pre-owned pump will be fuctional............... |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
Other than what gmctd stated, in the winter you may have issues with diesel fluid getting a bit thicker than the gasoline, and you would have from reduced flow to blockage due to the gasser pump. If you don't feel like getting your hands dirty pulling down the tank, you can install an electric centrifugal pump, as close as possible to the fuel tank on the fuel line. Centrifugal is better since failure to the pump would still allow you to have the engine running since it won't block the flow. An in tank pump is very likely to do that when it fails. What's most important is to replace the quick connects from the fuel line to the tank (in case you'll still have air in fuel after replacing the fuel filter assembly), those are the same type as used on gasser, and are prone to suck air. Gassers have in tank fuel pump that pushes the fuel, crd has a pump that pulls fuel, and since air is less denser than fuel, it may sneak through the connector even though you'll never see it leaking fuel. Cheap Chrysler innovation in action... |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
thermorex wrote: Gassers have in tank fuel pump that pushes the fuel, crd has a pump that pulls fuel, and since air is less denser than fuel, it may sneak through the connector even though you'll never see it leaking fuel. Cheap Chrysler innovation in action... That is the reason some feel an in-tank pump is the best overall modification!  gmctd wrote: The FI gasoline KJ intank pump makes the 58psi required for that injection system- way too much pressure for the Diesel system, which wants 9-14psi at the CP3 As to the pump pressure, the recommended in-tank pump that should be installed is designed for a Dodge diesel truck and is a low pressure pump. My pressure runs 14 psig at key on and stays between 12-13 while driving down the road.  There are several writeups available to guide one as to how to perform this upgrade...
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| Author: | thermorex [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
WWDiesel wrote: thermorex wrote: Gassers have in tank fuel pump that pushes the fuel, crd has a pump that pulls fuel, and since air is less denser than fuel, it may sneak through the connector even though you'll never see it leaking fuel. Cheap Chrysler innovation in action... That is the reason some feel an in-tank pump is the best overall modification! Correct, it is a great mod, but once you replace the connectors it should not be needed. Nor any pump for that reason. It's cheap insurance, sort of, since it's still couple hundred plus the work, and I personally agree with the mod. But there are vehicles that don't have any additional pumps and are running just fine, my 300sd didn't have one and it's starting within 1/4 second once the key is turned in the ignition, in temperatures below 5 degrees, provided all glow plugs are working obviously. The only aspect I don't like about in tank pumps is when it fails, you can't drive the truck and it's a pain to replace it. But they do last a long time. |
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| Author: | lacabrera [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
gmctd wrote: The FI gasoline KJ intank pump makes the 58psi required for that injection system- way too much pressure for the Diesel system, which wants 9-14psi at the CP3 - if you find a 2500-3500 RAM Diesel pump, the plastic should not be dark-colored, which would mean the p.o. had been recycling old crankcase oil thru the system - this definitely damages the motor armature, brushes, and bearings, with result that the pump does not always start, and stops erratically - if the coloration is close to that pictured, likely the pre-owned pump will be fuctional............... Many Thanks for the info, I was just about to order a kj gas pump and sender unit I had found on ebay. I have found a cheap 6 psi in line pump, I guess this will do the job as it only needs to pump up to the filter head. Any advise on doing away with the fuel heater? |
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| Author: | lacabrera [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
I think I will go for the inline pump, No chance to purchase a in tank pump from a Ram this side of the pond it is like me suggesting to fit a pump from a triumph stag. I am going to do away with the fuel heater and see how it runs this winter. I am still going to drop the fuel tank and replace the factory hoses and the quick connect joints. Good time to spray some underseal behind the tank? MANY THANKS FOR INFO |
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| Author: | ebbnflow [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Filter head |
I've got a Facet 40109 mounted in the engine bay. It solved my soft and squishy primer bulb problem. Been running it for over a year. |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
Inline is a good solution, with two (3) caveats: - the pump should be mounted as close to the tank as possible, regardless of what anyone posts - electric pumps are pusher-type, with little capacity for 'draw-type' service, particularly so with a low-micron filter - previous draw-type pumps were diaphragm-type or piston-plunger type, mechanically-driven off the camshaft - both types were designed for 'draw from the engine compartment' service - CARTER includes a specific 'mount close to the fuel tank' instruction in the carton with each electric pump - most dealers and installers throw these instructions in the trash, knowing ever so much more than the engineers at CARTER .................. - few inline pumps are flow-thru when failed, very important because the BOSCH CP3 internal lift-pump will still get you home when the electric pump fails - one good example is the DELCO inline pump used on the GM 6.5L Diesel trucks - being an electronically-controlled plunger-type, it is flow-thru when failed, and easily pumps more than enuff fuel for the smaller 2.8L VM Diesel - an inline pump near the tank requires an inline pre-filter, as there is none in the intank pickup module - any junk from the tank is normally trapped by the main filter head on the firewall, which is pre-CP3 - do not use a gasoline-type filter, as they are accordioned paper type for use on the pressure side of a pump, and can collapse when used on the inlet side of an electric pump - a good screen-type filter is needed between the pump and tank - again, it is only required to trap the large junk - the minute stuff will pass and be trapped at the main filter |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
With the addition of in-tank pump, it allowed me to add a second 2 micron fuel filter to provide additional protection for the injection pump & high pressure injectors. View this thread for info: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=80139 |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
ebbnflow wrote: I've got a Facet 40109 mounted in the engine bay. It solved my soft and squishy primer bulb problem. Been running it for over a year. I've been using the same pump mounted in my engine bay. But lately I have been noticing symptoms of air-in-fuel. Every now and then the engine will stumble while accelerating or going up a hill. No sign of fuel leaks at the fuel filter or head. So I think I need to do something about the connections back at the tank. |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
With no pre-filter screen, one might also suspect deterioration of the one-way valves in the pump - but: - the further the pump from the tank, the greater the head, or mass, of the 'draw' - the greater the head, the more likely any slight air leak will assume major problematic proportion The GM electric in-line lift-pump system utilizes steel pipes with threaded steel male\female hydraulic-type fittings, o'ring sealed, hydraulically-crimped to high-pressure rubber tubing at points requiring flexibility Other systems used steel pipes with clamped rubber tubing connections The poly thermo-plastic tubing fuel lines are copied from Ford, with their German Ford\MAZDA associations, all well and good for pressurized low-pressure fuel systems, but problematic in remote-mounted pump, draw-type systems - which the KJ CRD is one of................................... Thus, my continued recommendation of intank pump or close-mounted inline pump near the fuel tank, whether plastic or clamped rubber fuel line connection(s) |
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| Author: | ebbnflow [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
flash7210 wrote: ebbnflow wrote: I've got a Facet 40109 mounted in the engine bay. It solved my soft and squishy primer bulb problem. Been running it for over a year. I've been using the same pump mounted in my engine bay. But lately I have been noticing symptoms of air-in-fuel. Every now and then the engine will stumble while accelerating or going up a hill. No sign of fuel leaks at the fuel filter or head. So I think I need to do something about the connections back at the tank. I still have original connectors at the tank and no sign of air in fuel. If I ever do get symptoms, those connectors will be the first to go. |
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| Author: | rancherman [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Filter head |
My new-to-me 2006 crd was a deeeep south texas vehicle... now residing much closer to the Arctic circle! What is the threshold when the fuel heater kicks in? Mine still has the original small plug filter head, and was wondering if cold climates, hence more fuel heating, was causing the plug area to degrade? I plan on changing it out to the upgrade version soon. Same questions with the glow plugs too.. what is the theory on 'when they activate'. Is it every start cycle? or only when it's a certain temp? |
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