Another CRD in Limp Mode

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:19 am

Well, I have done all of the following. Replaced the Timing belt, waterpump, pulleys, new filter head, & serpetine belt. Put Samco Hoses, Egr Delete Kit, & GDE Tune. Fresh Coolant, fuel Filter, & air filter.

She runs great, smoother now with the tune, But still goes into Limp Mode :banghead:

. I've tried the boost pressure selenoid bypass to double check it going into Limp Mode, Still does it. Seems to run fine if Im going at highway speeds but it will go into limp mode when I'm slowing down or slowly accelling through a corner it seems.

I guess I'm going to try and see if there is an air leak through the fuel lines is my next step. I still seem to be getting air in the filter head even after bleeding the thing countless times, but I'd still figure it would be difficult to make it go into limp mode with a minor fuel leak, correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't check the vane movement in the turbo when I had everything apart either but I'd assume that i would either get a code to pop up or something if that was to happen causing the Limp Mode. By the way no code is being thrown for this limp mode.

Any other suggestions would be great....

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:57 am

On my Jeep, P0299 was a symptom of the turbocharger variable vanes being stuck. When pushed, I could get it to throw an overboost code, too, but I suspect that the codes thrown would just depend on what position the vanes were stuck in.

You didn't mention whether you have checked to see if the turbocharger actuator is working properly? 12mm or so of movement on the actuator arm using vacuum on/off?

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Actuator is working, did the idle with the vacuum pulled to see the movement. Right now no codes are being thrown and through the whole ordeal I only once got the underboost code...

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:15 pm

It's been a long time since I had a stock fuel filter assembly. On my Racor, I can crack a bleeder screw and see if there is air getting into the system, since that's at the high point in the fuel system. Are you able to do that, to make sure that air in fuel is actually your issue? Sorry if you've already tried that.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:25 pm

Yes the stock filter head has a primer and bleeder valve. I'd assume the engine would seem starved for fuel but it doesn't at all. I can prime and bleed and start it up and it may go in to limp mode after I pull off right after so it makes me think it may not be the cause......

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:27 pm

Tuf-Mud wrote:

Yes the stock filter head has a primer and bleeder valve.

I know that. I'm just asking if you open the bleeder after one of these incidents, is there actually air in the filter head? If it were me, I'd want to know the answer to that before I start looking for air leaks in the fuel lines. Just sayin'

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:38 pm

I've only driven it 40 miles since I've done all the above but I've bleed it at least 6 times since I started it back up. Each time other then maybe once was there no air in the line.

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:17 pm

Tuf-Mud wrote:

I guess I'm going to try and see if there is an air leak through the fuel lines is my next step. I still seem to be getting air in the filter head even after bleeding the thing countless times, but I'd still figure it would be difficult to make it go into limp mode with a minor fuel leak, correct me if I'm wrong.

Then...

Tuf-Mud wrote:

I've only driven it 40 miles since I've done all the above but I've bleed it at least 6 times since I started it back up. Each time other then maybe once was there no air in the line.

I'm not understanding how to reconcile these two statements, but if you're satisfied that you need to look for air leaks in the fuel, go for it. One other suggestion: have you really pressure tested your air intake? As in pressurizing the hoses, intercooler, etc.?

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:39 pm

Greiswig,
I know I need to figure the air leak out since it is constantly getting air in the filter this will be my next item on the todo list. I did not pressure test the intercooler, The Hoses are brand new so I did not test those either.

Sorry for the confusion, I'm a little baffled though as I thought all that I had done would of corrected the problem or at least made it "rare".... The Rig was driving 80 miles daily with no problem. There was definitely problems that I did not see or notice until the limp mode was set off. Although I would expect replacing the filter head, putting samco tubes on, getting rid of the EGR, and a GDE tune would aleve the issue to a small degree. I know this just goes to show there is still something wrong and none of those where the main culprit. I will more then likely put a fuel pump in as
some of the writeups have shown and see if that get me back on the road and solve the air in the filter head issue.

I do have a question though, If the variable vanes are stuck or not working would a code always be thrown or would the engine act in a certain way that is a telltale sign? Also Now that I have everything back together can I check these out with just removing some of the upper hoses and airbox?

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:11 pm

Okay, from what you said in that one statement, it seemed like you were NOT getting air in the fuel filter all the time. That's why I was suggesting you look elsewhere. As for why all those other fixes didn't fix it, I guess I would have counted myself lucky if they had: that's the shotgun approach. Personally, I prefer to find what the problem really is, then specifically target it.

But I can definitely understand the frustration of not finding what the problem is easily.

I have had air in fuel issues, and I don't remember for sure but I don't think it threw a code about boost pressure. Only about fuel delivery. I didn't want to believe it was a turbocharger issue in my case, but for me the code was pointing me to exactly where the problem was.

As for the P0299 code, mine was not throwing codes all the time, even though several of the vanes were stuck completely tight. I could see a little under 1/4" (5mm) movement in the actuator when vacuum was applied and removed, but that was just play in the actuator system. It was enough to make me think it was working okay until I actually saw how it was supposed to move (12+mm). But the vanes were not moving.

Why didn't it throw a code all the time? Probably because I'm a very consistent driver. I drive for mileage, and don't have a lead foot. So most of the time, the vanes were in a decent position to provide boost within the apparently wide range that the ECU found acceptable. But if I romped on it hard, it would overboost, and if I were in certain parts of the acceleration curve, it would underboost.

HTH,

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:04 pm

Best way to address air in fuel filter is an in-tank lift pump. The unions in the fuel line are designed to be used under pressure, NOT vacuum.

DOC

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Doc, Thats going to be my next thing to do and see if that clears up the limp mode.

I do have a Question on the limp Mode. I'm seeing some people say that the motor will not go above 2000rpm and the tranny will stay stuck in 2nd?
My rig still will shift(sometimes rough) and will go above 2000rpm but doesn't have any guts to go. if I'm on a flat grade it will propel itself to 30MPH, not sure if this is limp mode or the
false limp mode I've also read about?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

What scan tool are you using? There should be a stored code in the ecm, but not all scan tools can read them. A dealer tool will be able to see the code for sure.

There are a few potential fuel pressure codes that do not set a light.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:43 pm

GDE, I'm using a Innova OBDII code reader. It doesn't go deeper then just the normal DTC unless I bought the right programming. I'm borrowing the reader so I'm not planning on buying any of the extensions for it. Do you suggest I take it to a dealer to find a deeper code?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

They will most likely charge you $100 to read the codes unless you bring them a box of cookies or something. Try a few different scan tools if you can get access to others for free.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:08 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

They will most likely charge you $100 to read the codes unless you bring them a box of cookies or something. Try a few different scan tools if you can get access to others for free.

The Dealer will charge me $150 to diagnosis/scan the system for deeper codes, This is going to be my last resort. As of right now I have ordered a new Boost modulator & solenoid, Map sensor, just to cover my bases on the sensors possibly being responsible. Again this may be a shotgun approach but I want to be sure about them working correctly. The Map Sensor I'm only ordering just in the possibility I damaged it when I cleaned it. If this is me throwing money away due to the type of problem I'm having please let me know, I'm figuring it can't hurt replacing map for the $25 IDpart Charges.

Now I'm going to go over the fuel connections and get rid of all of the quick connectors and replace with the proper hose clamps and Fuel Lines. I will hold off on the lift pump for now, it can easily be added in the future if I need, unless you guys would suggest otherwise.

greiswig wrote:

Okay, from what you said in that one statement, it seemed like you were NOT getting air in the fuel filter all the time. That's why I was suggesting you look elsewhere. As for why all those other fixes didn't fix it, I guess I would have counted myself lucky if they had: that's the shotgun approach. Personally, I prefer to find what the problem really is, then specifically target it.

But I can definitely understand the frustration of not finding what the problem is easily.

I have had air in fuel issues, and I don't remember for sure but I don't think it threw a code about boost pressure. Only about fuel delivery. I didn't want to believe it was a turbocharger issue in my case, but for me the code was pointing me to exactly where the problem was.

As for the P0299 code, mine was not throwing codes all the time, even though several of the vanes were stuck completely tight. I could see a little under 1/4" (5mm) movement in the actuator when vacuum was applied and removed, but that was just play in the actuator system. It was enough to make me think it was working okay until I actually saw how it was supposed to move (12+mm). But the vanes were not moving.

Why didn't it throw a code all the time? Probably because I'm a very consistent driver. I drive for mileage, and don't have a lead foot. So most of the time, the vanes were in a decent position to provide boost within the apparently wide range that the ECU found acceptable. But if I romped on it hard, it would overboost, and if I were in certain parts of the acceleration curve, it would underboost.

HTH,

greiswig,
I'm not convinced that this is a Fuel issue but I know to rule that out I definitely need to fix it. Also The actuator on the Turbo moves, I couldn't really measure it but it moved a good amount probably a half inch or more that would be over the 12mm like you said. I'll be pulling the intercooler to pressure test and going over all the vacuum lines in the next couple days to see if I can spot anything responsible as well. If the fixed air leak, no leaks in the vacuum lines, and new sensors do nothing, I will pull the turbo and verify if that is the culprit, I guess.

Please let me know if I'm missing something I should be checking that I'm not aware of.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:00 pm

Alright, all fuel leaks are fixed, no more quick connects throughout the rig. Checked the turbo and there is no play on the fins on the intake or exhaust and it is not very dirty at all, the actuator mores enough to assume the variables are in good shape. But it is still going into limp mode. At this point I am taking it in to the dealer to see if there is a deeper code that can be found to point me in the direction, I'm suspecting this may be a tranny issue? I'll let you know what the dealer finds....

halburchal · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:25 pm

Tuff-Mud: What did you find out about the Limp Mode. I'm having the same issue.

laplaya · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:27 pm

Must be Monday blues then. Mine just started limp mode as well. Interested to see what the OP discovered.

laplaya · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:44 pm

Well I found my problem. Intercooler outlet hose is torn. Samco's will be here Wed.

Another CRD in Limp Mode

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