Another CRD in Limp Mode

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:11 am

Hello Everybody, this is my first post but I have been on here lurking since before I bought my Liberty.
I'm having a bit of trouble trying to figure out why my rig keeps going into Limp Mode, possible you guys may be able to help.

I bought the rig with 135000 miles on her, no serious issues other then the need of needing to do the timing belt replacement. The EGR was replaced and the previous owner has had it tuned, "by a local shop". I have installed the frankenlift on her and oil change, fuel filter, followed the noob guide(Cleaned the map, ORM, checked the turbo hoses, and so on). I have yet do the timing belt at this point, I was saving up but my Comanche took a crap and I'm currently dropping the tranny.

Alright so about a week a go on a 90 degree day, I was driving around stopped for about a half hour, started up just fine and within a mile she dropped in to limp mode. She was running quite rough and I thought it was fuel issue. Got home turned it off, primed the fuel filter and she was fine again. Drove her all week long, 80 mile round trip per day with out a hitch. Come the weekend I was going to a fishing spot up a rough state road and it happened again, did the same thing stopped, primed, started just fine. This happened twice more on the way home. These times the engine seemed to be running just fine not rough just going in to limp mode. Next Day going back to the fishing spot with the wife, happens countless times, very irratic some times 500ft going to limp mode some times a couple miles, turn around and finally catch a break by putting in a cruise control and it not going to limp and able to get home.
Also on this day I was noticing that the engine was not running rough and it did not seem like a fuel issue so without priming i was turning the rig off and back on after a minute and it would be back up to normal. this is all happening without a code thrown. Took it to a mechanic to have him hook up his OBD, only thing was a old code p0299. He couldn't do much else.

So at this point I went back through and cleaned the map not to dirty, Changed air filter, fuel filter, checked the hoses to the turbo. Only thing I noticed is the filter is leaking through the plug as stated on the forums, and once I unplugged the connector and prime it was leaking bad. So I put some silicone let it dry and then put tape over the plug to try and make sure that the vacuum was not sucking more air then I could prevent. I drove it around seemed to be ok for about 6-7 miles but then back to limp mode, and again, and again. I have the filter head on order from ALLPARTSMOPAR but it will be a couple days until that shows up. Since I feel like I have at least possibly stopped/slowed the air leak I would of assumed that the limp mode would be far less to enable so regularly. I'm at a stand point and any suggestion would be great, It seems to go to limp mode erratically, different speeds, and different distances. I'm going to take it in to a diesel mechanic to look at the turbo, vacuum pump, and catalytic converter to see if it is any of these. It is now throwing code of p0299 as well rather then just a old code of p0299.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:31 am

135,000 miles and you haven't done the timing belt. Park it like right now and pray the problem you are having is not timing cause if it is you have now added 16 rockers and lifters to the job.

That said the problem could be as simple as air in the fuel given your fuel head leak and I can tell you silicone won't stop it. I assume you ordered the filter head heater element to go with your new filter head. FYI the new head will come with a new filter and WIF sensor installed. Since you just put a new filter on your old filter head I'd pop the new filter and WIF sensor off the new head and install the old ones; save the new ones for your nest fuel filter change.

P0299 may be a vacuum leak in the vacuum lines under the coolant tank on the firewall inside the silver heat protection tube or could be related to a bad boost pressure solenoid. Check the lines and try the boost pressure solenoid bypass. Also see if the little air filter hanging off the vacuum tower, behind the air filter box, is dirty.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:05 pm

thanks for the quick reply papaindigo,

Filter head is ordered and will be here by the end of the week of monday, the vacuum lines are in good order, the filter is a little dirty but I have blown it out and off and seems to be just fine as I can blow through it just fine. i will try the boost bypass and see if that may be the culprit.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:31 pm

Well, I took it out for a spin with the boost solenoid bypass and it still went to limp mode. Now I haven't cleared the codes by unhooking my battery could that cause the issue to show up with the bypass?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:08 pm

You have a air in fuel problem.
The new fuel filter head will most likely fix it.
You may also want to consider installing a lift pump.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:09 pm

Not that I know of. My advice - stop driving it until the new filter head is installed and the TB job is done.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:33 pm

OK, so I'm ordering the ID timing belt kit with the graf water pump, and thermosat. That will cover everything correct, as they state on the website? Also I know I've read about people renting a special tool for this job, I'll read more about it shortly but is it absolutely needed or possible to do without?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:58 pm

The Idparts kit contains all the parts you need with these 2 comments - 1) just replace the front 1/2 of the water pump including the "O" ring as that's where all the moving parts are and removal of the whole water pump body from the block is not impossible but is very difficult and 2) I would not recommend replacing the thermostat as part of the timing belt job unless your temp gauge needle normally sits well below nearly vertical which means the tstat has failed open or partially open. Otherwise the tstat is fine and can be replaced later when needed (drain and recapture/reuse the bit of coolant involved.

You need 3 tools minimum - 1) cam pins which can be made (see http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html and viewtopic.php?f=98&t=72201), 2) a long shaft 6mm or 1/4" allen key to use as the crank pin (see the 05 FSM for how to use), 3) a couple of appropriate size long shaft allen keys to use to tighten the TB tensioiner (see http://www.greendieselengineering.com/j ... st/72.page for how to picture). Personally I favor 1) counting TB teeth across the top between both cams and 2) using a marking pen to witness mark opposing cam teeth; at least 1 tooth on each cam and the adjacent inner cover; and the fuel pump pulley one tooth and the adjacent cover.

If you do what's ideal and loosen the cams prior to installing the TB you will need a counter holding tool to loosen and tighten (80ft lbs) the cam nuts) as the cam pins in the aluminum valve cover won't stand the strain. There is an expensive and sometimes available on loan Miller tool or you can use one of several other options discussed on the forum or what's depicted in the bee farm post.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:50 pm

OK, all of that I should be able to handle, I'll pass on the t-stat for now. Are the harmonic balance bolts which I can add to the kit, the pins that can be made?

I'm also going to order the samco hoses from ID to rule out any pin holes I'm not noticing. Since the p0299 code is the only but a good justification to upgrade.

Thanks papaindigo , you have been a huge help. Hopefully I'll receive everything next week for a full weekend of tearing her down.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:00 pm

No the harmonic dampener bolts are different and I see no reason to replace them. Check the links I provided regarding the 2 cam pins as I think there is enough information there to enable you to get the proper tread size/pitch and lenght metric bolts from any good hardware store and then grind the pins your self.

That said if you would add your location to your signature perhaps there is a forum member nearby with the tools and some experience with the TB job.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:42 pm

These are the dimensions of the locking pins :SOMBRERO:

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:31 pm

WW the picture didn't come in for me but thank you. I'm going to place the order tomorrow. I'll make the pins and the tool that the write had, it's just two pieces of angle and three bolts, easy enough. Thanks again and I'll update you on how everything turns out and if it fix's the problem, I hoping so.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Alright here is the Update, I received all the parts from ID and Mopar. I have replaced the filter head, cleared the codes and drove it home from work roughly 40 miles, I did notice a bit of wettness on the bottom of one of the turbo hoses when changing the filter head and will be changing these to samco when I take her apart for the Timing belt.

It went in to limp mode a total of 4-5 times. Definitely less then what it was doing at least at the moment but it did sit for almost two weeks. As long as I was driving on a highway a speed on cruise it did not go in to limp mode. Although once going up a hill at 20mph, once cresting a hill going 45mph, and once cresting a hill going 55mph and then twice just off the line.

So as it stands I will be doing the timing belt, waterpump, hoses this weekend. While I have everything off I'm figuring taking a look at the turbo to make sure that it is in good working over may be in order. Is there a good walkthrough that someone could link to trouble shoot the turbo as I'm not familiar at all with them. Thanks in advance.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:26 pm

Turbo is pretty easy to check on the vehicle.
1. pull the air filter to turbo hose; grab the finned "wheel" that will be visible; wiggle front to back and side to side; if there is only a tiny amount of play front to back and barely perceptible play side to side then the shaft bearing is fine. While that hose is off check for a tear or weakness on the bottom just in front of the turbo where the CCV return line drips oil.
2. check the movement of the variable vane actuator rod by the GDE method "You can check the vane functionality at idle in park. Underneath the vacuum actuator on the turbo is rod extending downward connected to the vane mechanism. If you pull off the vacuum line at the turbo, the arm should drop about 1/2 inch and then raise back up after reconnecting the vacuum line. It is a bit difficult to see the rod, but this is the easiest method to check for proper VGT vane movement." If the is insufficient movement then the vanes are likely stuck. Check back for DIY methods to clean and unstick them.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

IF you clear the code, will the turbo spool up and give good boost at full throttle?

If so, the p0299 most likely is a result of a plugging egr circuit. If egr cannot flow enough, the intake throttle will close and choke off turbo flow to try driving more egr flow. This can lead to underboost codes in light-medium load situations.

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:02 pm

Papa,
Ok ran the GDE Method, and the rod moves up a down just as it should, So that should be good. When I start taking items off to begin the timing belt I will check the shaft bearing, will update once I have.

GDE,
I do not need to reset the codes to make the turbo kick in, As long as I turn off the rig and let it sit for a minute or two it seems to reset back to normal and out of limp mode. The Turbo does spool up when it is not in Limp mode

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Your turbo is not the issue, it is fine. Eliminate the egr with a tune and the problems will go away.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:10 pm

Quick option, blank off the EGR line and remove the throttle plate (2 screws) out of the FCV (flow control valve), then unplug the MAF sensor, this will totally disable the whole EGR system. It will trip a DTC code, but will not affect the running of the engine, only help it and it will eliminate any problems you may have with the EGR or FCV parts. :idea:

Block-off plate and the dimensions:

I did this very thing on mine early on before I re-flashed the OBC. :wink:

A Squeeto re-flash or GDE tune will eliminate any DTC after doing this...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78418&hilit=flash+flash

Tuf-Mud · **Posted:** Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:47 pm

I'm thinking this may be part of the problem, 5" inner tear on the upper turbo hose off of the intercooler. What you guys Think..You can't see it on the outside of the hose as the tape is covering it?

WWDiesel, I went ahead with the EGR Delete Kit from Sasquatch to eliminate any EGR issues.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Great on the EGR delete! Now its time for some Samco Hoses or some other good brand.

Looks like you were loosing boost through that tear???? :roll:

Another CRD in Limp Mode

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