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Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80431		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  barley00 [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Hoping for some help here, it's my first CEL on the CRD...brings me right back to the VW TDI days!

Going to back up to the last possibly related repair:

9/28 at 96359 miles changed fuel filter without incident (changed and re-primed fine)
Next couple of days though she didn't start smoothly, took two cycles of the key, sounded like no fuel, air in fuel? Could hear the pump running, afterward seemed fine, cleared up...or not given later developments:

10/16 first limp mode while pulling out of my road first thing in the morning, pulled over, cycled the key and fine afterward and fine in the afternoon.

10/17 same thing in the morning but then again in the afternoon this time with a CEL. I read the codes with Torque Pro and it reads P0093-fuel leak problem, P0301 cylinder 1 misfire detected.

Looking forward to input, thanks in advance.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Air leak into fuel that started right after you change filter. Remove filter head and reseal it. I had to do same at about 100K.
Author:  barley00 [ Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Thanks BlackLib, Hoping it's that easy! Fish are running the beach and I need this rig to get after them! Thanks again.
Author:  barley00 [ Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
BlackLib, Just want to clarify so I get this right the first time. What exactly do you mean by "reseal it"? Are you referring to the gasket on the filter or something else? Thanks.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Since this started right after replacing the fuel filter I'd guess a) you accidentally left the old filter's "inner" gasket in place and stacking the new filter's "inner" gasket on top of the old one is causing the filter not to seat properly (an uncommon but known issue); b) you did not "lube" the 2 new gaskets with a bit of diesel fuel so the "bound" up on the dry surface and the filter is not fully tightened; or c) the WIF sensor on the bottom is not seated properly. It's also possible that a) the bleeder screw is not seating properly and leaking or b) that the seal on the primer pump shaft is leaking.

Only way to check for doubling on the inner gasket is to pull filter unless you still have access to what you took off. Leaks at the base (top) of the filter, around the WIF, and around the bleeder and pump shaft can be checked for with dry paper towels.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
On mine the fuel heater turned making it leak. I put it in the vise, took the center bolt off and removed the heater. I put it all back together resealing the gasket on the body to heater.
Author:  barley00 [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Yesterday morning I pulled the filter and head, removed the filter, took a look-see and everything looked fine, no extra gaskets, etc. As I recall, when I made the filter change the old inner gasket was stuck in there and I removed it. I re-lubed all the gaskets, put everything back together, removed the outflow hose and bled it out a bit, replaced it and re-primed. I started her up and seemed fine until I pulled out of my driveway and hit the throttle. She went into limp right away and then stalled. Got out, reprimed and drove off and haven't had a problem with it since, including a nice drive on the beach...hopefully solved the problem...? If you don't hear from me the problem is solved. Thanks again for your time! Have a nice week.
Author:  barley00 [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
The problem is back with a vengeance, on side of road now. This morning rough idle at start then Limp out of my road. Made it to work. Tonight before driving home from work I primed the fuel filter, started her up and CEL came on. She then went limp and stalled. I have made it about two miles down the road, priming, restarting, stalling, etc.

Code reader says P0093 (power train fuel leak problem) and P0301 (cyl 1 misfire).

I removed filter and head again, rechecked everything and reinstalled, problem persists.

Have been sitting here idling as I write and she idles fine but wont accelerate past about 2k rpms and won't drive down the road without stalling.

I believe I am still on 1st gen filter head, what has been the problem with these?

Could really use some input, don't want to resort to the dealer or a shop that won't know what to do with this CRD.

Thanks a lot
Author:  barley00 [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Update: I was able to make it home (~14miles) sans turbo and without stalling, this is so reminiscent of my VW TDI and I ain't liking it...any input much appreciated, thanks.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
You have a air leak problem somewhere between the injection pump and the tank! The injection pump sucks the fuel from the tank, through all the fittings and hoses, and then through the filter head/fuel filter to the pump to become high pressure fuel in the fuel rail for injection. Your injection pump is getting air sucked into the fuel somewhere along the circuit and you have just got to try and find out where! The injection pump will not function properly if there is any air in the fuel coming to the suction side of the Bosch pump. :roll:
You must find out where that air is coming from! :wink:
Changing to a second generation fuel head would be a good start as there were leak problems with the one that came on the CRD's originally. Some of us on this forum have installed an in-tank lift pump to insure a positive feed pressure to the Bosch injection pump at all times... You can do a search on in-tank lift pumps on this forum if your are interested?
Good luck and keep posted as to the outcome.... :SOMBRERO:
Author:  barley00 [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Thanks WW, I do have a lift pump, pretty sure it's working. I am in the process of tracking down a fuel head. Will update as I get things changed out.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
The first gen filter head is the primary problem, you most likely have an air leak at the heater port. The first gen head would develop an air bubble (this is somewhat normal without a lift pump back by the tank) and the heater element that is ALWAYS ON would overheat and crack the plastic filter head.

The crack would be inside the right-hand wire socket and can potentially cause a fire if the leak is bad enough. Unplugging the right-hand plug is fine, you can leave it off all the time. If the plug is wet or smells of diesel - That is your problem. As a temporary repair, you can create a plug for the leak by filling the socket with RTV silicone.

A lift pump mounted back by the fuel tank will help push the fuel (instead of the stock suction-only system) but will also highlight any leak points that you have in the system, because now the fuel would be leaking OUT instead of air leaking IN. The "fuel system large leak" code is a bit of a misnomer, because it isn't a fuel leak, it is an air leak.

Hope that helps!
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Several points:
1. the very visible difference between the 1st and 2nd gen fuel heads is the bright blue heater element plug (see end of video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwGcWi3gE0). If you consistently have air in the filter head AND you have a 1st gen fuel head then replace the filter head.
2. setting aside other points of air in the fuel directly associated with the fuel head (bad bleeder screw seat, failed one way valve in the primer pump, leaky primer pump shaft seat, improperly seated filter, improperly seated WIF sensor, fuel lines clamps loose - most of which can be checked with a dry paper towel) the most likely source of air is the 2 quick disconnect fittings on the fuel supply (not return) line back by the fuel tank. The cheapest fix for those is a short length of marine grade diesel compatible fuel line and 4 hose clamps; drop tank; remove quick disconnects; replace with hose and clamps; and reinstall tank. Add a lift pump if you wish but that's less important than getting rid of those fittings IMHO.
Author:  barley00 [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milestone...First CEL, lots of limp mode lately
Just want to give an update. Finally got and replaced the fuel filter head/assembly today (after a week or so of no problems but at the same time not pushing it too hard) thanks to some wiring help by papaindigo. Took her for a hard test drive and all systems seem go. No limp, no CEL. Fingers crossed that this problem is solved. Thanks again to this invaluable forum!
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