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 Post subject: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Ever wonder why this engine has so much blow-by that is visible at idle? I know I have wondered why although it never looses any oil or drips any out of the EHM hose. Just a lot of vapor before I built my catch/filter can. :roll:
My Dodge Cummins came from the factory (98) vented to the atmosphere below the motor and it never hardly has anything coming out of the vent pipe. :D

For those interested, the reason was answered by:
Ranger1 wrote:
I found out years later that it's not all piston ring blow-by vapor. The vacuum pump exhausts directly into the crankcase and blows that air pressure directly past the piston oil squirter oil spray on the way to the CCV on top.

Now we know why these little motors smoke so much!!! :shock:
That said, could excessive flow out the EHM indicate vacuum leaks somewhere???
thoughts anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:21 pm 
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I've never heard about the vacuum pump theory, but the reason I am aware of is because the valve guides don't have any kind of sealing rings on them. The valves may or may not have a perfect seal, but there is a LOT of compression happening, so some leakage is to be expected, especially as the piston reverses direction and the valve may not be fully closed yet, so a little "puff" follows the valve back up past the guides and into the valve cover.

The main thing to remember is this: It appears to be completely normal, ALL the CRDs I have worked on have had a pretty significant flow from the CCV. There is a TON of oil spray happening under that cover, every time the valve is compressed to open, the lifter also emits a little squirt of oil from the top. That is why we need the filter or provent or catch can, or just let the oil back into the intake (it isn't anywhere near enough to cause any kind of runaway - EVER) and just use Samco hoses to prevent oil rot on the hoses.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:06 pm 
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Puff goes the magic dragon

Puff................puff................puff................puff

Puff........Puff........Puff.......Puff.......Puff........Puff

Puff....Puff....Puff....Puff....Puff....Puff....Puff....Puff

4-cyl = 90* - 180 - 270 - 360

6-cyl = 60*-120-180-240-300-360

8-cyl = 45*-90-135-180-225-270-315-360

'nuff said, eh............................

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:30 pm 
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The blow-by is not the problem with the 2.8l. The issue is the excessive oil in the blow-by gases. There is minimal baffling in the intake manifold and the CCV cyclone is designed for medium sized particles so all the fine mist oil vapor goes out the CCV tube. Fixing the issue should have been done in the design stage and we are well beyond that at this point. VM punted the CCV design. One could spend a lot of time/money balancing internal primary and secondary oil filtration along with the the proper pressure drop through the CCV to ensure no long term issues with engine seals.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:15 pm 
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geordi wrote:
That is why we need the filter or provent or catch can, or just let the oil back into the intake (it isn't anywhere near enough to cause any kind of runaway - EVER) and just use Samco hoses to prevent oil rot on the hoses.

geordi, I agree with your statement as long as the EGR is disabled or removed as the two of them together makes one hell of a mess in the intake....
Good boost hoses and NO EGR makes for a happy VMI motor.... :BANANA:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:50 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
geordi wrote:
That is why we need the filter or provent or catch can, or just let the oil back into the intake (it isn't anywhere near enough to cause any kind of runaway - EVER) and just use Samco hoses to prevent oil rot on the hoses.

geordi, I agree with your statement as long as the EGR is disabled or removed as the two of them together makes one hell of a mess in the intake....
Good boost hoses and NO EGR makes for a happy VMI motor.... :BANANA:


Oh, certainly - I was making the assumption that the EGR has been killed. Don't want to be making sludge pies in the intake!


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:38 pm 
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a. True, blowby is not the problem with the CCV puck - problem is the effluent resulted by the violent pumping caused
by the four (4) pistons displacing internal crankcase volume
This is further exascerbated by the higher oil temperatures resulted from the oil jetted to the underside of the pistons
to remove turbocharged Diesel combustion heat, plus the oil returned to the crankcase from the turbocharger
cartridge
This all contributes to increased oil vaporization compared to a gasoline-fueled engine

b. Diesel engine piston rings are specifically designed to reduce blowby as compared to gasser engines -
- Diesel fuel is a light oil, which does not wash normal engine lubricants from cylinder walls so Diesel cylinder walls do
not wear like gasser cylinders, even with the enhanced piston rings
- Diesel engines intake pure atmosphere, fuel being injected at the top of the compression stroke - this is why Diesel
engines can be seen to have half-million miles with little decrease in power
- pull the heads on a several hundred thousand mile Diesel engine and the oem finishing-hone marks can still be seen
in the cylinder walls

c. gasser engines intake atmosphere mixed with gasoline at top of intake stroke, filling the cylinder as piston drops,
washing the cylinder walls on the downward intake as well as on the upward compression stroke - gasoline has no
lubricant properties, therefore flushing any lubricating oil from the cylinder walls
- this is why gasoline engines wear so quickly, with steadily increasing combustion pressure blowby
- this is why Diesel-type positive-seal piston rings are used only in gasoline engines built for professional racing, which can be rebuilt after several runs

d. The CCV puck design was absolutely satisfactory for the normally-aspirated VM CRD engine as installed in the
millions in EURO and middle-eastern taxis - the problem arose when the turbocharger was added - there is no increased
blowby - the problem is the increased turbulence in the crankcase due to the increase in power and heat, combined with
the increased depression in the compressor intake duct -

What is needed is a CCV puck ~8" tall to handle the increased pulsations of a much more rapid acceleration\deceleration of the
reciprocating piston\rod\crankshaft mass in a hotter environment - pulsation is pumping caused by pistons displacing internal crankcase volume

PROVENT effectively increases the heighth of the CCV puck, returning the liquid to the crankcase - tap must be
above crankcase oil level because surface tension on the larger area in the oilpan is greater than surface tension
on the oil in the small area of the 1/2" drain hose - this would prevent drain if the tap were located below the oil
level in the crankcase - there is a one-way valve available to prevent effluent from blowing back up the drain
should the crankcase become pressurized

e. all 4-cyl engines produce more crankcase effluent than I6's, V6's and V8's

f. the basic concept can be seen by simply placing your hand near the tailpipe outlet, making note of the individual
exhaust pulses
These individual exhaust pulses are directly reflected in the crankcase as the reciprocating pistons displace the internal
crankcase volume - the stronger the pulses, the greater the turbulence

g. more crankcase vapors in a turbocharged engine, multiplied by the increased turbulence in a 4-cyl engine, result in
heavier crankcase vapors and more oil splash, as can be noted when the oil filler cap is removed while the engine is
running - do the same on a V8 Diesel and you get vapors but no splash - not as much pumping turbulence

h. The vacuum pump immediately evacuates all components connected to the vacuum hose - this happens within 2-3seconds,
full vacuum in the system from the power brake booster to the reservoir over by the TCM -
After the system is evacuated, the vacuum pump cannot output any further flow into the crankcase - full vacuum = no flow -
Only way to generate any further flow would be for the village idiot to be frantically pumping the power brake pedal,
requiring further evacuation of the power brake reservoir - so, the vacuum pump is only minimally contributive, even with a vacuum leak

i. intake valve guides do not require seals because there is no vacuum in the intake tract
- exhaust valve guides require no seals because exhaust pressure and crankase pressure can balance out - they could
be first candidate for seals in a turbocharged engine due to increased exhaust pressure against the turbine vanes
- there is no raw gasoline fuel on the guide-side of either valve so the guides do not wear like in gasoline-fueled engines

j. PROVENT effectively increases the heighth of the CCV puck, returning the liquid to the crankcase - tap must be
above crankcase oil level because surface tension on the larger area in the oilpan is greater than surface tension
on the oil in the small area of the 1/2" drain hose - this would prevent drain if the tap were located below the oil
level in the crankcase - there is a one-way valve available to prevent effluent in a pressurized crankcase from
blowing back up the drain

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SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Great writeup gmctd!
So if I am reading correctly, you are saying that all CRD's should have a Provent installed. It should have been part of the original factory design? :roll:
And, which size do you recommend, the 150 or 200? :?:
I think most have posted they are installing the 200 size...
And, how or where are you plumbing the oil drain back into the motor?
thanks for sharing,

These are the Provent size ratings:
Image

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:45 pm 
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PROVENT 200 install pics, including installing the drain port in the crankcase, are in my earlier post back in ought 7 or ought 8 - I'll do a search and post the shortcut

The 200-series was chosen because a turbocharged 2.8L engine under 15psi Boost becomes effectively a 5.6l engine -
a normally-aspirated engine pumping a volume of 2.8l at one atmosphere effectively pumps two atmospheres volume under Boost, efficiencies and such being rounded up to the nearest 100% -

Those interested in numerical accuracy down to sub-atomic particle level are welcome to post any\all corrections

p.s. - the vacuum pump conundrum can be easily resolved by removing the air filter from the shop air compressor in your garage, plugging the opening so no air flows into the compressor, switching on the motor, then observing the elapsed time until the volume in the air tank is filled to preset pressure

A vacuum pump is nothing more than an air compressor with a system connected on the intake side rather than on the output side - once the intake system is evacuated, there can be no further flow thru or out of the compressor until more atmosphere is allowed into the previously-evacuated system by manipulation of some valve within the system which is ported to the atmosphere - this is done when depressing the power-brake pedal, or ECM is controlling the waste-gate or VVT solenoid for the vacuum servo, and etc - or, the village idiot has accomplished a break-in to your KJ........................

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GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
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Last edited by gmctd on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:01 pm 
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What is the pressure drop across the provent 200? My main concern would be potential freeze up conditions. Most manufacturers install heaters in the CCV tubing if the hoses are longer than about 20 inches. In cold weather there is potential for condensation to freeze in the CCV and pressurize the block, this leads to rear main seals blowing out and high dollar expenses. We have spoken with a few guys running the elephant hose mod that had this happen on the CRD in the winter. You just want to make sure the cure is not worse than the disease.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:44 pm 
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As can be seen in my post, connecting hose was sized such that the inner diameter of the hose matched the i.d. of the CCV puck and the PROVENT 200 inlet and outlet port inside diameters - larger diameter hose was selected to fit over the connecting hose and the port o.d. - thus there are absolute minimal obstructions which could increase resistance to normal effluent flow thru the PROVENT, which would increase pressure drop across the cannister - 'course, procedures to remove soot buildup in the filter interstices must be addressed at suggested intervals to prevent increased resistance to normal flow - also, as PROVENT cannister is mounted on the passenger-side near the turbo, the hoses pass closely thru the exhaust-turbine heated area, reducing any freezeup

Then, again, I live way down below the it-don't-snow-much-down-here line, so any episode to prove or disprove this may not readily occur - keeping the connecting hoses short should be a preventative measure, tho

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:36 pm 
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So......I've searched hi and lo, lo and hi, searched till I'm blue in the face, but still have not found my PROVENT install post :banghead: - I'm sure I saw it during a massive search when I rejoined the fracas back in SEPTOBER, but nothing this time :dizzy: - I paged thru my 30-some-odd page lift pump install thread, to no avail, thinking I could have tacked it on in that venue, still nothing - guess I'm doomed to failure on this one :dead:

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:19 pm 
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Read through all the old posts back in 06 & 07, some very interesting reading in some of the old threads. I did not find your install thread either if it is of any consolation? I did read where one poster stated you posted it on another forum?

Couple of questions though after reading most of the old threads:
Goglio704 wrote:
stated, "I don't know why anybody would want the drainage from a Provent or Racor going back into their oil pan. It is truly some nasty stuff and mostly water. I'd happily replace the lost oil in the drainage rather than put that stuff in the pan."

gmctd wrote:
stated: "That is correct - and if you didn't terminate that drain port, either in the crankcase or with a plug, the 2.8 CCV system is non-functional, assuming, instead, the characteristics of the EHM - word up, dudes.........................."

If the above statements has merit, I would presume the drain tube with a valve or plug on the end of the hose that you can drain every so often is the best route to go as opposed to going to all the trouble of trying to plumb it back into the oil pan? :idea:

Second question: According to some of the threads, the ProVent unit requires the slight vacuum on the outlet hose to function properly by being connected to the turbo inlet pipe (OEM connection) as opposed to just letting it vent to atmosphere under the vehicle as we do with the EHM. I need to know this, as I broke down and ordered the ProVent 200 but had planed to just let it vent under the vehicle like my EHM did...
I do not like the idea of putting anything through the blades of the turbo or through the intercooler except good old clean filtered air... :banghead:

Sorry if some of this is rehash, but some of the newer members including myself probably would like to know these things....

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:14 pm 
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The problem begins where the CCV puck vents into the turbo inlet: lots of vapors (non-harmful) with lots of raw oil droplets and soot (sludgy mess in compressor blades, charge-air cooler, engine intake manifold. and all points in between) - the PROVENT is an added-in centrifugal filter between the puck and the compressor inlet to further sling the oil droplets out of the vapors, with a sheet polyester screen element to filter soot out of the vapors - how is that bad?

Correct connections help keep the crankcase at the required slight depression, helping the recovered oil to continuously drain back into the pan so there is no oil stored in the PROVENT system - keeping the hoses short should reduce any freezing event

A sad tale with happy ending, for your entertainment -
Sub-division civic organization began leaving nasty notices of imminent eviction on #2 son's door upon noticing the black soot spots all over his white concrete driveway, dripped from the then-installed PROVENT 200 drain-hose plug - new hose, new plug, even put a rotary valve in a 'nuther new clear hose with internal mesh to prevent expansion - no help after a short while, summer temps contributing to hose expansion from hot oil.

Over I went with several types of degreasers and cleaners, including clorox bleach - got the KJ back to my house, jacked it up, and did the right thing, according to instructions

There, on the side of the engine block below the turbocharger, are three (3) bosses, drilled and tapped for other installs - I selected the lowest boss, 1/4" counter-drilled it thru the side of the crankcase, re-tapped the hole to 1/8"npt, installed a stainless steel 90* elbow, clamped the drain hose to that, and problem solved -

He was happy, I was happy, and his mom did not have to seek new housing in dirt-driveway residential area..............................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


Last edited by gmctd on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:12 pm 
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gmctd wrote:
There, on the side of the engine block below the turbocharger, are three (3) bosses, drilled and tapped for other installs - I selected the lowest boss, 1/4" counter-drilled it thru the side of the crankcase, re-tapped the hole to 1/8"npt, installed a stainless steel 90* elbow, clamped the drain hose to that, and problem solved - he was happy, I was happy, and his mom did not have to seek new housing in dirt-driveway residential area..............................

Can you supply a picture of your connection point?

One last thought.
Is the CCV puck on top of the motor serviceable in any way???

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SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:01 pm 
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Image

Thar she blows, down below and to the rear of the turbo drain port..............you can also see the shiny stainless steel npt fitting for the EGT probe, there in floor of the exhaust manifold - the woven stainless steel shield of the EGT probe cable can be seen above the PROVENT drain hose in the center of the next pic

Image

Note the lack of oil around the drain tube connection, while noting the oil visible in the clear drain tube, having drained out of the PROVENT after engine shut-down - compressor intake while engine is running will depress crankcase volume thru PROVENT and the CCV puck, pulling that oil into the pan

TA-DAAAA, eh...........................................

CCV puck is not meant for service, IIRC, but you can pry it apart - age and heat deterioration render the thermoplastic not as pliable as new, so caution is of utmost importance if attempting this endeavor

BTW - I had the turbocharger off for it's pre-requisite post-PROVENT compressor blade and scroll spring-cleaning

p.s. - the PROVENT sheet polyester screen filter is washable and reuseable

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Finely, got some technical answers and details about the CCV that may be of interest to others on this forum thinking of installing a ProVent or Racor filter in the CCV line?
Permission was given to share.
Ranger1 wrote:
The working crankcase pressures, negative or positive, that Mann Hummel and Racor design their coalescing CCV's for.

Racor - working crankcase vacuum of -0.14 psi(-4 inches of H20), relief valve pressure of positive 0.14 psi(4.0 inches of H20).
Provent - working crankcase vacuum of -0.072 psi (-5 millibars), relief valve pressure of positive 0.72 psi (50 millibars).

Provent vents slightly higher than Racor, but still below 1 psi, runs crankcase at half the vacuum level of a Racor CCV.
Racor states in their CCV guide that crankcase pressure should never be allowed to be positively pressurized. Racor even states that most modern engine crankcases cannot tolerate pressure much over 1 psi and that seals will begin to leak at positive crankcase pressure or excess vacuum levels. I think we definitely want a slight vacuum on the crankcase, but not too much, as Racor also states that excess vacuum will damage engine seals in a diesel engine. They too offer a vacuum flow regulator on their CCV's. That pretty much mandates a closed loop gas flow system with a Provent CCV.

I suspect that's all the CCV on our engine is really doing, limiting the vacuum flow from the turbo to prevent engine seal damage. IOW's, the bare minimum to get past warranty.

Mann-Hubbel - Provent's graph of the 200 model (designed for up to 200 liters per minute of blow by gas at 350 KW power level) shows - 5 millibars for all but the very highest gas flow readings. We are at 120KW stock, about 1/3 of the max rating on a Provent 200, so we should be well within 1/3 scale of rating of their graph on the horizontal scale, or about -5 millibars (-.072 psi) of working crankcase vacuum.

So both Mann Hubbel and Racor keep the crankcase pressure at a slight vacuum by design and vent at very slight positive pressure, both less than 1 psi.

In any event, I've been using the Provent 200 for 9 1/2 years, with no oil leaks anywhere. I've checked the front and rear mains, the oil cooler and the pan gasket annually. All are dry and clean to this day. No issues, so I'm assuming the Provent is running a slight vacuum on the crankcase. I clean the filter when I drain the oil, using WD40 or something similar. The filter seems impervious to cleaning fluids, looks like woven fiber glass to me.

I know from testing it that our turbo puts out quite a bit of air volume at idle, even when the boost level is showing 1/8 psi on my gauge. With that much air coming out of the turbo, it's pulling a good amount of vacuum on the Provent and OE CCV.

We are not alone in this oily mess coming from the factory CCV valve. The 2007/08 Grand Cherokee CRD owners with the Mercdes 3.0L V6 diesel report the same oily mess in their intakes, with the same apparent blow by issues. They are also adding CCV's to stop the mess. Even the 09 and later VW CR TDI's with a multi-chamber, passive vortex/centrifuge style CCV still report oil in their intakes. Racor's CCV design guide claims that those types of CCV's are low efficiency and will not trap the oil at high efficiency without a coalescing filter.

Interesting that both Mann Hummel and Racor use coalescing filters for their CCV's. No cheap spring operated flapper valves or multi-chamber whirling airflow designs, just an ordinary coalescing filter.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:16 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:11 am 
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More good information to consider on CCV mods:
from a pm discussion on the merits of installing a ProVent and venting to atmosphere:
Be sure and read the last statement, it is profound esspecially if you are running a EHM!

So the ProVent must be connected to the turbo inlet hose to function correctly???? Are you saying the ProVent has to have some vacuum on the outlet side to keep the relief valve from opening???

Yes to the above. Also it needs some vacuum to efficiently remove oil vapor from the input gas stream.

If I install it and just let it vent to atmosphere like my current setup, the relief valve would be subject to operate anytime the engine is at higher boost loads where more blowby would be produced.

Yes, exactly. It will also vent at idle if the filter is never cleaned or replaced. Racor gives some valuable data in one of their pdf's - they quote 1X blowby gas at idle, up to 4X times as much blowby gas at peak power levels, on a new engine. On a worn engine, it is 2X at idle, up to 8x the amount of blowby gas at full power due to worn rings.

Or, does this engine produce more blowby at idle?

No, less at idle. However, if you remove the oil cap with the Provent connected in close loop, and raise the idle speed, the blow by gas coming out of the oil cap pipe disappears, looking like it's less. It's actually the increased vacuum the Provent is pulling on the crankcase. The blowby gas disappears with the idle speed raised by a tiny amount, even 900 rpm does it.

Also, with your statement, that means the EHM that many of us have done and are currently running is really not the best setup for the engine due to the lack of any negative pressure supplied by the turbo inlet pipe when the turbo is at higher speeds providing boost????

Exactly. Without the regulated vacuum on the crankcase, it's going to run at slight positive pressure at idle to much higher pressure at speed or especially towing. Racor also stated that just using a closed loop system without a regulator on the vacuum to the crankcase is as bad for the engine seals as not having a relief valve. Both Mann and Racor state that the crankcase must run in a narrow range of vacuum, with the *numbers below. Both vent to atmosphere at much less than +1 psig. Racor further stated that excess crankcase pressure can damage head gaskets in extreme cases.

*Racor-working crankcase vacuum of -0.14 psig(-4 inches of H20), relief valve pressure of positive 0.14 psi(4.0 INWG)
*Provent-working crankcase vacuum of -0.072 psig(-4.96 millibars), relief valve pressure of positive 0.72 psig (50 millibars)

If you didn't connect to the turbo inlet hose the crankcase pressure could rise to a maximum pressure of .72 psi, the relief valve setting on the Provent because of the blow by and no regulated vacuum to the crankcase to eliminate the pressure. The relief valve on the Provent is on the input side, so any pressure differential between the input and an open output line greater than .72 psi will vent inside the engine bay and coat it with oily residue. Not good!

Things have changed from the old days when engines were designed to run with a vent pipe down the side. Man have they changed. I'm beginning to see why several LOST members have lost rear main seals - they run a EHM and tow. It's starting to add up now, since I found that information on the desired range of vacuum for modern diesel engines. Racor and Mann Hubbel should know about this since they sell a lot of CCV's on a lot of diesel engines. If they get it wrong, they're going to be sued out of business.

This also explains why VM Motori put several pressure sensors on the new 3.0L V6 diesel in the Ram and GC vehicles. They have both pressure, vacuum and flow sensors, which trip MIL lights and codes if the hoses are removed. I see why now, it can cause major engine repairs on a tow vehicle if the crankcase pressure goes much above 1 psi.

:shock: :shock:

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No FCV/EGR
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Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:39 am 
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Quote:
Racor further stated that excess crankcase pressure can damage head gaskets in extreme cases.


Interesting. I would be very curious to hear how that might happen, and how much pressure constitutes and extreme case. I would have thought that a gasket that is designed to work against cylinder pressures would scoff at even a few PSI of crankcase pressure. And I would have thought the main seals would give long before that became an issue.

Has anyone had a seal failure on a CRD?

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