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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:37 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
I use carb cleaner. Brake cleaner gives me a nasty rash.
Gasolene may be cheaper, but carb cleaner comes in a handy spray can and can be used in a variety of ways.

Carb spray cleaner is good sutff. The brake cleaner I use comes in handy spray cans just like carb cleaner only cheaper....

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:50 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
One of the petroleum fuel development engineers I worked with a few decades ago had worked with diesel so long that his skin would no longer repel it. It would go right through like DMSO for most people. Put him in hospital a few times until he figured out what was doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:02 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
thermorex wrote:
Agree with you, the explanation is better layed out than how I said it.
Regarding brake cleaner, isn't it too expensive? I am curious, I never thought to use that, even though I think it's more cost effective to use gasoline.

If you catch it on sale at one of the big box part stores, it can be fairly cheap! Not as cheap as gasoline, but a whole lot safer....
I buy it a case at the time with shop discount....use it for all kinds of cleaning. Very handy to have on hand! :wink:

Lol, I try not to smoke when cleaning the filter... I soak it in a gallon windshield jug that I removed the top from, next day is almost like new, but I give you this, without like 5 rags over the jug, the garage stinks like gasoline quite bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:10 am 
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thermorex wrote:
but I give you this, without like 5 rags over the jug, the garage stinks like gasoline quite bad.

Those fumes are a whole lot more dangerous than the liquid, ask me how I know!!! :shock:
Experience is a powerful teacher when you are young, if you survive....

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Bumping this back up.

I ran the catch can with a 50 micron screen for months and I think the screen did little to nothing. It never collected any oil other than the occasional split of oil on the screen. I ended up wrapping the screen with 2 wraps of dryer sheets, trimming to fit and wrapping it with kevlar rip cord to hold it. After a few thousand miles, it seems to be filtering more oil but still no accumulation.

So in searching for an alternative I found virtually the same product that comes with a clear bowl and the option of a paper or polyethylene element. Does anyone know how a polyethylene filter would act in a ccv scenario? I like the paper element option and for the filter price of $12 I could just replace it every oil change.

Opinions?

https://www.vacmotion.com/Details.aspx?Cat=VacuumFilters&Id=38 paper element version

https://www.vacmotion.com/Details.aspx?Cat=VacuumFilters&Id=6 polyethylene version


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:04 am 
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Hi everyone. I'm just posting so this will show up in my list of threads. Great information.

But, what is EHM? (Elephant Hose M...?) Clearly the old breather pipe that sticks down alongside the engine.

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Changed Turbo.
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Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:34 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
But, what is EHM? (Elephant Hose M...?) Clearly the old breather pipe that sticks down alongside the engine.

Elephant Hose Mod.

It is one cheap and dirty way to prevent the crankcase gasses from flowing back through the intake and combining with the EGR soot to make tarmac in the intake. Many people, (including passer-by and others in traffic) dislike the stinky huffy smokey discharge emanating from the vehicle to the surrounding atmosphere. Particularly annoying when setting in stalled traffic or at intersections. I don't like it due to the number of people that already think diesels are mass polluters. No reason to agitate them.

It has fallen out of favor as of late, as the CCV system requires the little bit of negative pressure produced between the filter and the turbo. Without it, there has shown a correlation strong enough to indicate some causation, that without the CCV vacuum, people have had their rear main seal fail. One reason is the seal is so dang big, it doesn't take much positive pressure to cause it to fail.

This is one reason many of us have installed Provent units. It returns the CCV system to the correct closed-system, negative-pressure condition, but separates the oil and vapors from the CCV discharge gasses before returning the cleaned air back to the original pre-turbo junction. Most of us drain the effluent to a catch can to be emptied periodically, but I believe a few have gone ahead and plumbed a junction to run it back into the oil pan.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:01 am 
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minuteman wrote:
Bumping this back up.
I ran the catch can with a 50 micron screen for months and I think the screen did little to nothing. It never collected any oil other than the occasional split of oil on the screen. I ended up wrapping the screen with 2 wraps of dryer sheets, trimming to fit and wrapping it with kevlar rip cord to hold it. After a few thousand miles, it seems to be filtering more oil but still no accumulation.
So in searching for an alternative I found virtually the same product that comes with a clear bowl and the option of a paper or polyethylene element. Does anyone know how a polyethylene filter would act in a ccv scenario? I like the paper element option and for the filter price of $12 I could just replace it every oil change.
Opinions?
https://www.vacmotion.com/Details.aspx?Cat=VacuumFilters&Id=38 paper element version
https://www.vacmotion.com/Details.aspx?Cat=VacuumFilters&Id=6 polyethylene version

Why not just purchase and install a ProVent filter as many CRD owners have done?

One must be very careful of adding just any kind of inline filter to the CCV system!
It needs to have a pressure relief valve in case the filter was ever to become clogged for any reason. Allowing any internal pressure to build up in this engine has proved it will blow out oil seals! :shock:
The Provent is a coalescing design type filter & housing and it also has a built in bypass valve.

See this:> https://www.mann-hummel.com/fileadmin/u ... n_2013.pdf

:SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:14 pm 
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The RX catch can on my F150 is pretty darn effective. In the winter I collect 8 oz every 500-1000 miles.

Image

This is what comes out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:48 am 
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Nice!

Although if Guinness is on tap, I prefer it straight, rather than the Black and Tan.

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BLING
vent gauges

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:19 am 
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Finally finished reading this entire thread. Whew! There is a lot of good ideas and friendly banter, plus a couple ruffled feathers. This certainly is a civilized group, and I'm glad of that.

Here is an idea that might be used to limit some of the extraneous fumes going into the crankcase.

Everyone's heard of the P-Trap. It allows liquids to flow but stops air. (Originally intended to prevent sewer smells coming into the house.)
Image

Can this be implemented in the turbo oil return line? Some say compressed air and exhaust gasses go into the crankcase via the drain. Maybe this could stop that.

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:21 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
CaptainDean wrote:
But, what is EHM? (Elephant Hose M...?) Clearly the old breather pipe that sticks down alongside the engine.

Elephant Hose Mod.

It is one cheap and dirty way to prevent the crankcase gasses from flowing back through the intake and combining with the EGR soot to make tarmac in the intake. Many people, (including passer-by and others in traffic) dislike the stinky huffy smokey discharge emanating from the vehicle to the surrounding atmosphere. Particularly annoying when setting in stalled traffic or at intersections. I don't like it due to the number of people that already think diesels are mass polluters. No reason to agitate them.

It has fallen out of favor as of late, as the CCV system requires the little bit of negative pressure produced between the filter and the turbo. Without it, there has shown a correlation strong enough to indicate some causation, that without the CCV vacuum, people have had their rear main seal fail. One reason is the seal is so dang big, it doesn't take much positive pressure to cause it to fail.

This is one reason many of us have installed Provent units. It returns the CCV system to the correct closed-system, negative-pressure condition, but separates the oil and vapors from the CCV discharge gasses before returning the cleaned air back to the original pre-turbo junction. Most of us drain the effluent to a catch can to be emptied periodically, but I believe a few have gone ahead and plumbed a junction to run it back into the oil pan.


So i havent looked into this much past when i installed the EHM. But you are saying now with it my rear main is more likely to fail? So the choices safe for a rear main are route the ccv back into the intake ( and whatever other stuff comes with it, i guess more oil for the turbo at the least) or get a provent are it right?

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:20 pm 
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ryanchris wrote:
So i havent looked into this much past when i installed the EHM. But you are saying now with it my rear main is more likely to fail? So the choices safe for a rear main are route the ccv back into the intake ( and whatever other stuff comes with it, i guess more oil for the turbo at the least) or get a provent are it right?

Basically what you have stated is true! Several on this forum in the past have reported having the EHM mode and experiencing a blown or leaking rear or front main crankshaft oil seal.

We learned that the vacuum pump discharges directly into the engine crankcase area so with this and any additional piston ring blowby, there can be quite a bit of oily gaseous flow coming out of the CCV puck on top of the valve cover. By design, the engineers designed this system to have a slight negative pressure draw or slight vacuum on the crankcase that is provided by the low pressure suction zone that is provided by the intake boot between the turbine inlet and air filter.

So with an EH mode and if the end of the hose were to happen to freeze shut or if the hose were to get a kink in it preventing normal gaseous flow discharge, pressure inside the engine could build up and this could be detrimental to the oil seals.

We also observed that with a EHM, if you came to a stop, a lot of oily vapors could be observed by others being emitted from the vehicle. :roll:

So many, including myself have installed a Mann colesing ProVent filter to allow the CCV connection to be placed back into the intake boot as OEM. The ProVent traps and removes almost 100% of any liquids such as oil and / or condensation out of the gaseous CCV flow and collects it so it may be drained at convenient intervals such as when you perform oil changes.
This keeps oil and / or any condensation from contaminating the internals and / or collecting in the bottom of the CAC (intercooler). It also keeps the oily residue out of the intake manifold where if, hopefully not, you still have a EGR system still functional will form a sooty crusty crappy buildup mess. There are many pictures on line and in this forum showing the terrible buildup when the two are mixed together!

Note: if you read this thread from the beginning, it will give you a better understanding of many of the whys! > viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80491

:SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Received this from another member and found it of interest as it relates to issues with the performance of the CCV system similar to our Jeep CRD's.
Issue on Ford Ecoboost engines CCV system as it relates to carbon buildup on intake valves that are experiencing which is affecting engine performance.
Recommendation is to add a catchcan filter system and use the suction/vacuum from both turbo intakes along with normal intake vacuum when available on a gasser engine to keep oil vapor out of intake manifold.

The Biggest Problem with Ford's Ecoboost Engine & How to Fix It: RX Catch Can Installation
https://youtu.be/v6h_FOzFMcs

:SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Does the provent have a fail safe?

I've had times where the EHM on mine would freeze shut on a 11°F day and the engine would burn motor oil at a ridiculous rate because the seals didn't fail (thank God).

I am concerned that a filter type catch can such as the provent may have the same problem on those cold days.

Does anyone know of a non-filter type catch can that fits/installs easily in the CRD?


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:56 pm 
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LikesDieselTanks wrote:
Does the provent have a fail safe?

I've had times where the EHM on mine would freeze shut on a 11°F day and the engine would burn motor oil at a ridiculous rate because the seals didn't fail (thank God).

I am concerned that a filter type catch can such as the provent may have the same problem on those cold days.

Does anyone know of a non-filter type catch can that fits/installs easily in the CRD?

Yes, the ProVent does have a safety pressure blowoff relief valve in the top of the cap.
See this:> https://www.westernfilters.net.au/conte ... o-Vent.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:06 am 
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ok, so...

With Weeks' full kit installed, the decision is Provent or just return the prior owner installed EHM to the stock CCV configuration.

Already has Samco CAC hoses, and the stock air hose from airbox to turbo is intact and in good shape.

hmmm...

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:17 pm 
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k9adv wrote:
ok, so...
With Weeks' full kit installed, the decision is Provent or just return the prior owner installed EHM to the stock CCV configuration.
Already has Samco CAC hoses, and the stock air hose from airbox to turbo is intact and in good shape.
hmmm...

Depending on the volume of oil mist in suspension in the gaseous vapor leaving the CCV puck and being sucked into the turbo inlet will determine how much oil and other liquids will eventually condense and drop out of suspension and accumulate in the bottom of the CAC (intercooler). Oil vapors passing through the CAC over time also can degrade and impede the heat transfer capability of the cooling flues as they become internally contaminated. The oil vapors also can rot the turbo inlet hose and boost hoses if they are the rubber OEM type. :roll:

Salution:
A Mann ProVent 200 coalescing filter is highly efficient and will capture and collect most any and all residual liquids that are suspended in the gaseous vapor passing through the special filter material and collect them in the bottom of the housing for draining purposes later at your convenience. These coalescing and filter actions together prevents oil contamination inside the turbo inlet hose, turbo blades, boost hoses, CAC, and most importantly prevents any liquid buildup in the bottom of the CAC (intercooler). :idea:

:SOMBRERO:

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Week's BatteryTray
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Carter Intank-pmp
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Flowmaster/NO CAT
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GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:49 pm 
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you convinced me...lol, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:13 pm 
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k9adv wrote:
you convinced me...lol, thanks.

You won't be sorry and your Jeep CRD will love you for it! :mrgreen:

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Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
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GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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