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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:24 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
I've been a very happy user of the provent. It works and I have no complaints.
But there is one thing that has always bugged my about it...

The flow path and filter position.
CCV vapors enter the canister from the top port. Flow down through the filter. And out the bottom port. The filter traps the oil along the path.
But, in order for the trapped oil to drain out of the filter, it has to pass through the filter:?
So what exactly keeps the oil from going back out the bottom port?

I get it, it works, but I dont get it.

I agree with you, seems kinda backwards doesn't? First time I looked at it after I got mine installed it had me second guessing myself, thought I had it plumbed backwards. So, I went back and reviewed the installation instructions and it was correct. You could reverse the connections except that it has that check valve on the outlet fitting. Only thing I can figure is they wanted the most area exposure to the filter material and the larger diameter spin area for the coalescing action to take place??? :shock:
Now if we could engineer a little standpipe for that outlet inside the filter..... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:20 pm 
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I though I'd post back here with some results form the catch can install. I've put 500 miles on it since install and about 350 of those miles were interstate at 68mph with the cruise set. The rest were 15mph on dirt roads through the National Forest.

Unlatching the grease gun clip and unscrewing the canister shows just a few spits of oil on the 50 micron screen but no accumulation of oil inside. Removal of the hoses shows oil residue on the CCV side. On the turbo elbow side it has just a touch of soot but no oil. I think the slight rise from the CCV to the canister helps prevent the oil from running through.

I think I'll keep running this till the next oil change and recheck. For now though it looks promising.


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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:03 pm 
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so yes to EHM or NO?

I've been running mine for 150,000 plus KM/s now, high speed highway driving, low speed FSR roads to the logging blocks, stop and go city driving etc...... I've noticed ZERO issues. Oil is super clean, no signs of road grit being sucked back into the EHM hose and into the engine. How any dirt / dust would make it thru the 3 feet of 3/4" ID hose and them thru 4 ozs of oil in the MOROSO oil catch can and then thru another 3' of 3/4" ID hose all the way back into the CCV thru the SPRING LOADED flap is beyond me.


my Moroso install

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82628

Can we just get rid of the CCV all together and run grommets and some elbows and hose to the catch can?

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:47 pm 
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Bushman5 wrote:
so yes to EHM or NO?

EHM is BAD, reasons are covered in earlier parts of this thread!!! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:11 pm 
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well, this is quite frustrating. I'm approaching 260,000 KM's on my diesel. The hybrid EHM / Moroso Catch can i have installed has worked flawless. I service it twice a month and get about 2 tablespoons of oil . Engine is running flawlessly after rocker replacement last year. The oil in the catch can has zero road dust or grit in it.

So i'm just not seeing how the EHM is an issue. It is simply impossible for dirt to get sucked up 3 feet of 3/4" ID hose, thru 1.5" of oil in the catch can (which would TRAP any oil - and tests negate any dust in my oil in the catch can), and then travel thru a SS baflle, and then thru another three feet of hose,before finally having to go thru a SPRING LOADED flap....the crankcase emits POSITIVE PRESSURE. The spring loaded flap prevents NEGATIVE vacuum!!!

I did the EHM / MOroso catch catch can because my engine when i bought it used, was full of sludge and soot. I followed the NOOB guide and disbaled the EGR and did the EHM mod . After cleaning out the engine and intercooler and CAC hoses and turbo , it ran flawlessly and CLEAN.

now the EHM is no longer a good thing? I say BS.....my EHM mod has over 150,000 KM's plus on it. There is no longer misty oily sludge building up in the rockers and intake. If there was a problem with the EHM as is being stated in this thread, then it would have shown up by now. I drive hard, long distances, city, off road and with a load. Regular oil changes with Mobil TDT and an oversized filter.

can we please make up our minds on this and realize that not everyone can afford a provent.

for the record my turbo'ed Cummins work truck has a EHM and it has over 6.9 MILLION KM's on it. And it is driven in extremely dusty dirty conditions and in freezing weather as well.

never an issue with the EHM on any of the 13 trucks at work.

if the EHM is a known issue, the mods BETTER remove that fix from the NOOB section, lest people do it and screw their vehicle up . Not all of us are made of money. The repairs so far from the rockers, valves and labor almost bankrupted me last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:13 am 
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Dirt is not the issue.

CRD's need negative CC pressure. Even slight positive pressure can have bad results.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:30 am 
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so how come my factory CCV, rerouted via 3/4" id hose to a Moroso catch can and then down to ground, has zero issues? again, over 150,000 KM's PLUS on that setup. No mains seals leakage, just normal operation.

as for neg CC pressure, LONG before i did any mods to the CRD, one could unscrew the oil cap and the POSITIVE PRESSURE coming out was insane. Since my EHM Hybrid mod there is almost 75% less pressure coming out.

so.....

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:25 am 
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Bushman5 wrote:
so how come my factory CCV, rerouted via 3/4" id hose to a Moroso catch can and then down to ground, has zero issues? again, over 150,000 KM's PLUS on that setup. No mains seals leakage, just normal operation.

as for neg CC pressure, LONG before i did any mods to the CRD, one could unscrew the oil cap and the POSITIVE PRESSURE coming out was insane. Since my EHM Hybrid mod there is almost 75% less pressure coming out.

so.....

So, youve been lucky.

If what you have works for you, keep rolling with it.
Whats the worse that could happen? You blow out your rear main seal.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:20 am 
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The vacuum pump discharges internally into the engine crankcase; so along with piston blowby, there is always going to be some positive pressure potential within the engine if not removed properly.
Some members in the past on this forum reported oil seal leakage and / or rear main seal blowout along with all the visible smoke observed with the EHM at idle which created a lot of discussion on the subject and the merits of having the EHM.

But I think GDE in their 2014 post stated it best:
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
The VM engine specs are very similar to other OEMs:

8.4 CRANKCASE VENTILATION
The engine is supplied with an oil separator incorporated in the cylinder head cover and the duct must be connected to the main inlet duct, between air cleaner and turbocharger compressor inlet.
The crankcase must always be kept under negative pressures. The depression however should never exceed 20 mbar. To meet this target it is often necessary to use a vacuum control valve.
The blow-by from the engine should never exceed 15 liters/min per cylinder.
Any vehicle inlet system, including air cleaner, ducts, intercooler and crankcase ventilation, once in a fully design intent configuration will be evaluated on the test bench by VM for a final approval.

If I was still currently running an EHM, I would be rethinking the logic behind that modification and the consequences or ramifications that it may entail.....
An EHM will not supply any negative pressures in a crankcase! :!:

In the end, the consensus of the group was an EHM mod is not good!
Bottom line: It is your vehicle, if you want to continue running an EHM, that is your prerogative, no one will beat you up doing so!
We are each our own Warranty providers and must make the best informed decisions possible when it comes to modifications and / or the consequences thereof...
:juggle:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:51 am 
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I've decided to go back to the stock setup from the EHM mostly to get rid of the smoke sitting in parking lots and at stop lights. I'm glad I kept the original hose.

Is valve coking an issue on these?

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:07 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
I've decided to go back to the stock setup from the EHM mostly to get rid of the smoke sitting in parking lots and at stop lights. I'm glad I kept the original hose.

Is valve coking an issue on these?

Not that Im aware of.
But with the stock ccv, eventually everything gets coked up. Youve already seen what happens to the intake elbow.

Provent :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:22 pm 
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could we not just get rid of the CCV puck, open up those two holes and make one big 3" one and use a large diameter hose ? this would prevent any blockages and provide MORE than enough hose internal surface area to prevent "positive" pressure inside the crankcase....

..case in point,......again, my work diesel truck. Massive ID EHM hose and a simple grommet and elbow in the valve cover.



I really dont want to reconnect my catch can exit hose BACK into the turbo hose and have all that moist air going back into the system.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:01 pm 
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If your catch can is working effectively, there shouldn't be any excess moisture in the air going back in.

:2cents: Provent :2cents:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:29 am 
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all right...tonight i removed the hose after my catch can, shortened it and re-plugged it BACK into the turbo inlet hose where it came from.

I DO NOT like the crankcase fumes (acids......etc) re-entering the system.....but i will concede....

I still find it interesting that my work truck....with a BIG Cummins inline 6 diesel, has nothing more than a 3/4" ID draft tube...............and it has 6 mil plus KM's on it....and never had a seal leak....

That Cummins is 16 liters BIGGER than these little CRD engines. One would think that 3/4" ID hose EHM would be more than enough to vent fumes and prevent seal blowout....considering that the same 3/4" ID hose EHM is used on a commercial diesel engine 16 liters BIGGER!

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:35 am 
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Bushman5 wrote:
all right...tonight i removed the hose after my catch can, shortened it and re-plugged it BACK into the turbo inlet hose where it came from.

I DO NOT like the crankcase fumes (acids......etc) re-entering the system.....but i will concede....

I still find it interesting that my work truck....with a BIG Cummins inline 6 diesel, has nothing more than a 3/4" ID draft tube...............and it has 6 mil plus KM's on it....and never had a seal leak....

That Cummins is 16 liters BIGGER than these little CRD engines. One would think that 3/4" ID hose EHM would be more than enough to vent fumes and prevent seal blowout....considering that the same 3/4" ID hose EHM is used on a commercial diesel engine 16 liters BIGGER!

That was my thought as well.

One thing I will say though, is that without vacuum on the crankcase of my F150 Ecoboost, the fuel did not evaporate from the oil well at all. Once the hoses were reconfigured pre-turbo, like these jeeps, the fuel dilution of the oil was SIGNIFICANTLY lower. That's one reason I removed the ehm and went back to the stock setup.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:45 am 
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the issue i have....is the stock CCV set up is THE root cause of over $9000 in repairs for me (almost bankrupted me last year) ......thats why i when i read the NOOB guide couple years back.....i jumped at the chance to FIX the oily issue.

Now the consensus is EHM BAD!

I personally think the EHM mod should be REMOVED FROM THE NOOB GUIDE.

despite the fact that thereis 13 trucks at work with massive diesel engines that have a EHM and they all have over 6 mil KM's on them with ZERO ISSUE>

i'll stop now. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:03 am 
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How did the the ccv puck cause $9000 in damage?

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Bushman5 wrote:
all right...tonight i removed the hose after my catch can, shortened it and re-plugged it BACK into the turbo inlet hose where it came from.

I DO NOT like the crankcase fumes (acids......etc) re-entering the system.....but i will concede....

I still find it interesting that my work truck....with a BIG Cummins inline 6 diesel, has nothing more than a 3/4" ID draft tube...............and it has 6 mil plus KM's on it....and never had a seal leak....

That Cummins is 16 liters BIGGER than these little CRD engines. One would think that 3/4" ID hose EHM would be more than enough to vent fumes and prevent seal blowout....considering that the same 3/4" ID hose EHM is used on a commercial diesel engine 16 liters BIGGER!

I agree on the Cummins as I also own one that came from the factory with just a simple metal crankcase vent tube on the front of the motor pointed to the ground; no recapture, nothing fancy, basic old school design... :D

I do believe the huge difference between the 4 cyl. VM engine and the big Cummins 6 is design and seal quality. The VM engine was designed by their engineers to have the turbo inlet suction pulling on the CCV and this may be partly due to the internal vacuum pump discharging continuously into the crankcase. Whereas the big Cummins engines vacuum pump is external and does not discharge into the engine's crankcase and I suspect the oil seals on the Cummins are much more robust due to the design of not having any negative crankcase influences on them in the crankcase... :roll:

An EHM is just simply not worth the risks and / or consequences along with the possible financial costs that could be incurred!!! :2cents:

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:15 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Bushman5 wrote:
all right...tonight i removed the hose after my catch can, shortened it and re-plugged it BACK into the turbo inlet hose where it came from.

I DO NOT like the crankcase fumes (acids......etc) re-entering the system.....but i will concede....

I still find it interesting that my work truck....with a BIG Cummins inline 6 diesel, has nothing more than a 3/4" ID draft tube...............and it has 6 mil plus KM's on it....and never had a seal leak....

That Cummins is 16 liters BIGGER than these little CRD engines. One would think that 3/4" ID hose EHM would be more than enough to vent fumes and prevent seal blowout....considering that the same 3/4" ID hose EHM is used on a commercial diesel engine 16 liters BIGGER!

I agree on the Cummins as I also own one that came from the factory with just a simple metal crankcase vent tube on the front of the motor pointed to the ground; no recapture, nothing fancy, basic old school design... :D

I do believe the huge difference between the 4 cyl. VM engine and the big Cummins 6 is design and seal quality. The VM engine was designed by their engineers to have the turbo inlet suction pulling on the CCV and this may be partly due to the internal vacuum pump discharging continuously into the crankcase. Whereas the big Cummins engines vacuum pump is external and does not discharge into the engine's crankcase and I suspect the oil seals on the Cummins are much more robust due to the design of not having any negative crankcase influences on them in the crankcase... :roll:

An EHM is just simply not worth the risks and / or consequences along with the possible financial costs that could be incurred!!! :2cents:


OK, now that makes a lot of sense to me, and perhaps thats what I missed on VM engine...I swore i thought it had an external vac pump that discharged externally......now i can see why the seals on the VM can blow out. (my bad)

jws84_02 wrote:
How did the the ccv puck cause $9000 in damage?


PO left the factory CCV in place. The CAC hoses, turbo inlet hose, , intercooler, FCV, EGR, intake elbow , were completely sludged and coked up. Despite the PO's frequent oil changes, the intake and valves and valve cover were sludged heavily and coked up with soot , enough that rockers popped off.

I also live in Canada, where repairs and parts and machining are triple to quadruple what it costs in the USA. All the parts had to be ordered from ID Parts, and the USD to CDN exchange range was pretty bad. I also had the water pump and timing belt done at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Excessive CCV or Engine Blowby
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:47 pm 
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I have been running EHM for over 73k all good


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