What to do with 2005 CRD with broken timing belt

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:20 am

Timing belt went @ 85k miles. I know, should have changed it after 5+ years, old rubber. Jeep dealer can put in a rebuilt engine with 3/100 warranty for $9k. So now comes the hard part. It is a 9 year old car so do we stay or do we go?? Sell it or repair it?? My daughter is pretty practical so she might drive it another 10 years but based on its age I know other problems will be coming soon. If I were to sell it as-is does anyone know what a fair price is? We are love our CRD but is the money better spent on a replacement?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:36 am

You shouldn't have to replace the engine to get it running again.
For $9K you could probably buy another used CRD (if you shop around).

Can you fix it yourself? That will save you a ton of money.

Plan on pulling the head but you may not have to go that far.
The rocker arms are designed to break when the timing belt breaks.
Once you pull the valve cover/camshaft assembly you can inspect the rockers.
If the rockers performed as designed you can install all new ones and put it back together with a new belt.

If you really want to keep the CRD and make it last for a long long time...
1. pull the head and check the valves to make sure none are bent
2. install ARP head studs
3. install new head gasket
4. torque down the head
5. install new rocker arms
6. re install the camshaft assembly
7. install new water pump and thermostat
8. install new timing belt pulleys
9. install new timing belt
10. block off the EGR valve
(and if you have any money left over)
11. get the GDE tune

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:12 am

I can probably handle the "If you really want to keep the CRD... " steps but if any valves are bent am I getting in over my head? Is there much risk in "not" puuling the head?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:30 am

MFRYTX - very first question and recommendation, where are you and add that to your signature as there may be a member nearby who can help.

When a timing belt goes on an interference engine the valves and pistons make contact. On the VM engine when that happens the rocker rollers are designed to collapse to prevent valve, valve stem, and piston damage. It's very unlikely although not impossible that you have bent valve stem(s) although I don't know how to check. It's even more unlikely that you need a new engine although I'm positive the dealer would just love to sell you one as they probably have a boat payment due.

General outline of what likely needs to be done which does not include pulling the head.
1. follow the procedure to do a timing belt job all the way to removing the existing timing belt.
2. pull the intake cover and check for crushed rocker rollers and/or broken lifters.
3. order timing belt kit and full set of rockers and lifters from Idparts - total cost ca. $800. Consider getting set of ARP studs $360 since you are in that far.
4. install rockers and lifters, retime engine, button things back up, enjoy - ca. 2 days of work.

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:02 am

Thanks for the advice. I'm in Houston and the Jeep dealership is clueless so any local help would be welcome. Will I need any special tools. I've seen a few post on the timing belt, any hints? Should I buy the manual?

mecne · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:34 am

MFRYTX wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I'm in Houston and the Jeep dealership is clueless so any local help would be welcome. Will I need any special tools. I've seen a few post on the timing belt, any hints? Should I buy the manual?

Manuals are here in pdf http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

You'll need the Cam locks for sure , and a 6mm or 1/4 drill bit for the flywheel lock .
There is a special cam gear lock , but if you careful and have the coordination your can use a MetalNerd Universal Sprocket Buster instead. http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1938

There are many TB walk through guides.
In the beesville guide he uses the Metalnerd sprocket buster. Guide = http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html
You should also read Hexus's thread on his Rocker replacement - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74149
Also Thermorex's Rocker Replacement walk through - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=75479

My advise , read and search .. and search and read . I know i have ..

I am currently in it deep at the moment replacing rockers , due to a broken rocker .
Here is a picture of what you will get down to for the rockers.

M

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:28 pm

Very long PM sent... You have an opportunity to watch an expert rather than attempt this for the first time yourself.

As is typical, the dealership COMPLETELY blew the diagnosis because they don't understand this engine at all. You can get it running again for less than half their quote, and that is including parts, labor, and travel.

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:16 pm

Finally getting back to timing belt and rockers. So far so good...getting ready to pull the intake cover.

I'm looking at rental cam locking tools from Sasquatch. Only the GATES is available. I'd prefer to wait for the MILLER since I'm into to this for $1600 already (TB, WP, TH, ARP studs, rockers, hoses) no time to cut corners. Any recommendations?

In the order of things does it matter if I do Water Pump and Thermostat after rockers. Replacing TB comes last with timing so I figure so long as I get to it before then I'm ok or am I missing something?

I'm also encountering biodegradable electrical/wiring harness. Either I'm too rough or this stuff does not hold up well in Houston. Some connectors I may cut/splice but I'd rather tape and silicone wires where I can. And do I really need to put back that plastic wire tray? Very brittle...many parts to piece together.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:11 pm

MFRYTX wrote:

In the order of things does it matter if I do Water Pump and Thermostat after rockers. Replacing TB comes last with timing so I figure so long as I get to it before then I'm ok or am I missing something?

I'm also encountering biodegradable electrical/wiring harness. Either I'm too rough or this stuff does not hold up well in Houston. Some connectors I may cut/splice but I'd rather tape and silicone wires where I can. And do I really need to put back that plastic wire tray? Very brittle...many parts to piece together.

The timing belt has to be removed to replace the water pump.
So while you have everything apart go ahead and install a new water pump.
And you dont have to replace the whole thing either. Just the front part, the actual pump.
The pump housing can remain bolted to the block.

Thermostat can be replaced at any time.

My factory plastic wire wrap stuff is crumbling too. But the wires are still ok.
You can get more of it at any autoparts store or just wrap with electrical tape.
I hate cutting/splicing into factory wiring harnesses. Just leads to more problems down the road.

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

MFRYTX wrote:

I'm looking at rental cam locking tools from Sasquatch. Only the GATES is available. I'd prefer to wait for the MILLER since I'm into to this for $1600 already (TB, WP, TH, ARP studs, rockers, hoses) no time to cut corners. Any recommendations?

We should have a Miller set back in stock sometime next week.

olypopper · **Posted:** Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:14 pm

This is yet another example of how incompetent most dealer service departments are.

Good job on tackling this your self!! I'm in the same boat you are, so to speak.

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:39 pm

I pulled the new Graf WP from the box and ID only sent the front half?? is that how they come these days?? Looks like it will fit.

Am I correct in my thinking that since the belt broke I'm not too worried about cam pins and timing until I work my way back to the timing belt? I think I can rig my own tool to remove the cams but will wait for the Miller tool to finish up. Slow and steady...

Also looks like I need a new fuel separator head. When I disconnected the electircal connections/plugs one of the pins came out of the head connector. Very corroded. I could try and solder it back in place but again what's another $100 at this point.

Thanks to all the help in this forum. I had replaced the EGR at 50k (didn't make the codes go away but did run better) and never considered doing the TB. Very bad judgment on my part. No excuses next time.

As soon as my daughter recovers from this repair I'm going to talk her into the GD tune.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:55 am

MFRYTX wrote:

I'm looking at rental cam locking tools from Sasquatch. Only the GATES is available. I'd prefer to wait for the MILLER since I'm into to this for $1600 already (TB, WP, TH, ARP studs, rockers, hoses) no time to cut corners. Any recommendations?

Yeah, no need for the Miller or any other fancy locking tool. Make or buy yourself a sprocket buster type tool. It will work perfectly well for you.

MFRYTX wrote:

In the order of things does it matter if I do Water Pump and Thermostat after rockers. Replacing TB comes last with timing so I figure so long as I get to it before then I'm ok or am I missing something?

Order doesn't matter.

MFRYTX wrote:

I pulled the new Graf WP from the box and ID only sent the front half?? is that how they come these days?? Looks like it will fit.

Yeah, this is correct, you only need the front half. There are no moving parts to fail in the back housing.

MFRYTX wrote:

Am I correct in my thinking that since the belt broke I'm not too worried about cam pins and timing until I work my way back to the timing belt?

Correct. You can set up the timing when you're doing the rockers.

MFRYTX wrote:

I think I can rig my own tool to remove the cams but will wait for the Miller tool to finish up.

Like I said the Miller tool is unnecessary.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:12 am

The reason idParts sent you only the front 1/2 or the water pump and an "0" ring is there are no moving parts in the back 1/2 of the water pump AND removing the whole water pump (e.g. back 1/2) is way more than a bit difficult. It saves probably 1-2 hrs to just swap the front 1/2 of the water pump.

Yep you need a new fuel filter head. Comes with a new filter and WIF sensor plus wiring. Oddly there are 2 sets of wire when you only need one. Look at old wires; match new ones as best as possible by size not color; slid new wires thru new plug; snap on blue wire retainer; disconnect battery; cut old wires/splice in new; install new head with wiring plugs; reconnect battery.

Personally I would not recommend replacing the thermostat at this time UNLESS the temp gauge normally reads low. If the temp gauge normally reads just left of vertical then your current tstat is just fine and may last quite a while longer. I'll admit replacing it a bit of a chore due to access (need to remove air box and turbo to intercooler hose and best to use a wobble extension to get to the lower rear bolt) and you lose a small bit of antifreeze but why replace a working item.

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:02 am

Since I'll be taking the cams off with home made tool I'll give it a try timing too. Thanks for the advice.

Too late on the thermostat went a little overboard and already pulled it off. I'm also replacing upper and lower radiator hoses while I'm at it. Nothing fancy just figured while I was in there.

The broken pin on the fuel head was a surprise. Too bad I already bought a filter. I guess better to have a spare then not.

Now if it would just stop raining for a few hours.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:20 am

Be sure that the new upper radiator hose is well clear (1" at least) of the viscous heater pulley. The "short" end goes to the radiator and the long end to the tstat. You may need to trim both ends a bit to fit but if you trim too much off the long end the hose may get set back into that pulley with unpleasant results, I know. Best use the old hose as a template; trim long; then fit and retrim as needed.

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2015 7:42 pm

Thanks for the radiator hose tip. Got me thinking and saved me from trying to install the lower hose backward. I have the intake off and have replaced the head bolts. No torque readings coming out. Apparently my torque wrench "...will not actuate or click in the counter-clockwise or left hand direction". May have to return to sears and pick up one from HD or the like to finish up. No obvious rocker damage but I didn't look too close since I'm replacing anyway.

Need to fabricate the locking pins next.

Now that I'm getting ready to put her back together a few questions.

1. Where to use anti-sieze vs. thread lock
2. Is there a preferred or best way to deal with the EGR CEL issue.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2015 8:11 pm

FYI, I made some locking pins for cams myself, due to having a different thread in the head cover since I stripped the old ones... It is relatively easy, especially if you have a template. Best is to have a lathe, but you can make it with a bench grinder and good eye also.

Oh, if you still have the egr, I'd recommend weeks stage one and 2 kits and a tune to get rid of the cel when you take egr out. That's the #1 killer to this engine. You can get free tunes from the tech forum or get the best there is, a gde tune.

You said you replaced the rockers, not sure if you mentioned, but if you didn't get injector fire ring (the washer that goes inside the head where injector goes) from idparts, make sure you get those also, otherwise you may have leaks with old ones. Those are designed to get crushed and seal when you tie in the injector. The only place I used anti seize is the injector, whatever goes over the crush washer (fire ring) all way up to the rubber ring. The timing belt cover 7mm bolts it's recommended to use some loctite on them so they don't come loose as you can't torque them too much.

MFRYTX · **Posted:** Fri May 08, 2015 10:37 am

I got the injector o-rings and crush washer from ID so I'm good there.

I still have some concern/confusion over the EGR. I know it is evil and Texas is not a testing state but Weeks 1, 2 and GDE tune can add up to a few $$. Since I have the intake is off for rockers it's an ideal time to do this but I'm still unsure. I'm spending my daughters money so I'm trying to be responsible. With only 88K on the engine she plans to keep it a while.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri May 08, 2015 12:56 pm

I have but have not yet installed week's elbow kit and it certainly does a nice job of getting rid of the FCV and horrible intake elbow; the latter makes getting to the #3 glow plug a nightmare. If money was an issue in choosing between that kit an a GDE tune I'd go with the tune which minimizes EGR function; adds power; and improves mpg. If money is a significant object IIRC there are free tunes that minimize EGR function without the other benefits of a GDE tune.

If you don't get the week's elbow kit then I'd strongly recommend that while you have the valve cover off you spend <$10 to replace the intake elbow bolts with studs (any parts store will have) and nut/lock washer to make future removal and re-installation vastly easier.

What to do with 2005 CRD with broken timing belt

Who is online