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 Post subject: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:20 am 
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So my wife's jeep decided to go the route of a 6.0 powerstroke and stop running. Code p0093 is present so at the behest of every post i saw, i checked the heater plug on the fuel head. Low and behold it was melted and there was about a drop of fuel inside. So i got the updated bits from mopar, installed, spliced, primed and bled. Tried to start after clearing codes and not even a hiccup. After priming again, i tried to start and got nothing... Again. Put the code reader back on it and got the same code. Now im stuck, should i do a lift pump, or check other things out before i even try that?

What about the fuel rail pressure regulator, as i have heard those are going bad more often now that the vehicles are getting older with more miles. This thing only has 143k on it. I need advice as i am a fairly capable mechanic but no so much with electrical/driveability. Hopefully with you help i may be able to get this thing going before monday. Any and all help is appreciated and thanks in advance!

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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:36 pm 
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NOTE: Rail pressure can be ~6000psi with engine off, not running - EXCERCISE EXTREME CAUTION when bleeding pressure to remove FPS
- place heavy shop towel over area to buffer escaping Diesel fuel
- unscrew slightly, 1/4-turn or so, allowing bleed-down
- hydraulic pressure will bleed off quickly - this won't be like a fire hose gushing due to small volume in rail system
- as pressure drops down in 250psi to 0psi range bleeding will be slower
- wait till rail is dripping B4 slowly unscrewing sensor, still covered by heavy shop towel for safety

P0093 is fuel rail pressure deviation - points to the Fuel Pressure Sensor, screwed into the driver-side of the rail - STANDARD # FPS16, ~$180. on eBay, might check ROCKAUTO.com for better pricing

Rail Pressure Solenoid screwed into rear of rail could also be likely suspect, as it allows bleed-off (bypass) to maintain desired rail pressure - a STARSCAN, or other scantool which can display real-time engine data, would be necessary for definitive troubleshooting without cash outlay for every guess, educated or otherwise

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SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:44 pm 
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New update, took the battery to a buddies house close by to charge and test. 4 beers later it was charged and load test indicated a few bad cells. So i have to come up with money for that before i can proceed. Any recommendations?

I read on here to test the injectors, remove the return rail on top and put clear tubing into return port. If more than 1/4 inch of fuel in tubes after 10 seconds crank time, injector(s) are bad. If not, move on to fpr by unclamping return hose and crank for 10 seconds, if fuel escapes in almost any volume, fpr is bad. As i understand it the fpr is supposed to remain completely closed during startup. Does all of this seem about right?

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


Last edited by 06crdnut on Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:50 pm 
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Bad cells=no permission from the ECU to fire the engine. As to new battery the newer Red Tops have a bad rep. Any Group 34 (OEM was a 34R but a 34 will fit if you orient the terminals same as OEM although you might have to slightly bend the - clamp to fit); ideally AGM; 800CCA+ (OEM Red Top was 700CCA) will do fine. Lots of folks have preferences but in all honesty any decent brand name with a decent price and warranty will be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Another update, got the new battery, put it in. Wala, no change. So i took the fpr out of the rail and there was absolutely no bleed down. So i put it back in and cranked again, this time with live data displayed on abs fuel pressure. Pressure peaked at about 1800 psi for a brief moment, then hovered around about 1300. When i stopped cranking the pressure bled down to under 100psi. So that tells me 3 things, a) the fps is working, maybe not perfectly but still, b) the fpr isnt letting the pressure build, or c) the injection pump is not getting exactly what it needs.

Am i correct in my hypotheses?

Thank you all for the help thus far!!

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:54 pm 
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The FQS Fuel Quantity Solenoid in the CP3 is forced open at IGN on, during START and held open until engine runs to ensure quick rail-pressure buildup to operating pressure, then ECM assumes control to regulate to required pressure, around 6000psi at idle to max ~22600 on hiway - the RPS\FPS Rail Pressure\Fuel Pressure solenoid regulates by bypassing excess fuel back to the fuel tank via that large hose on passenger-side of fuel rail - the clamped rubber hose indicates it to be a low-pressure output

You could remove the hose, plug that open end, attach a 'nuther hose to the fuel rail and observe the flow into a suitable container - end of original hose must be blocked because COV valve in CP3 also returns excess fuel to the tank thru the same fuel-return piping - rail return fuel out of the hose should be a trickle, because ECM uses the FQS and RPS to determine necessary volume at varying operating rpm and demand

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:18 pm 
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So something somewhere isnt allowing pressure to build is what your saying...? Lol that was hard for me to understand. Given the fuel pressure values, what is my next step? Keep in mind it is 30 degrees outside right now. I need to know what i can do based off the information i have shared so far.

Thank you!

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:16 pm 
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It's dark here and ~40*, so manana I'll get some live readings for comparison and post them - meanwhile, I would suggest that you stay inside by the fire with a nice hot toddy, if you can ascertain my meaning......................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:30 pm 
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I had that same problem today on a customer's Jeep that I just installed an engine in. I have extra fuel rails so I swapped one out and it took care of the p0093. Then I got a P0088 (high rail pressure). That turned out to be the solenoid on the injection pump. I swapped it out in an hour and it took care of the problem. If you need a fuel rail (with sensor and solenoid) let me know. Keep us updated with what you find!


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:37 am 
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I have been considering this seemingly sudden rash of FPS, FQS, RPS, etc failures with some concern - seems like every time someone services the engine, or after merely switching IGN off then trying to restart, a won't start-won't run post is logged indicating some rail pressure DTC

Suddenly realizing that our '05 and '06 CRD KJ's are now right at 9 and 10 years old, this may be early warning indicating priority service to the rail pressure system is required

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:59 am 
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Crappy part is gmctd, my wife is 7 months pregnant and stalled in the middle of a very high traffic road at rush hour while moving. So is there any way to test the fqs?

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Update, uplugged the fuel line on the fuel rail on the driver side just in front of fuel pressure regulator solenoid, cranked for 10-15 seconds with paper towel underneath and fuel was just pouring out if it. Drenched a stack of paper towels a half inch thick in 10 seconds. Now as i understand it, that means the fpr in the rear of the rail is at fault, correct?

I would show images however i cant figure out how to upload.

Thanks again!!

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:00 pm 
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06crdnut wrote:
Update, uplugged the fuel line on the fuel rail on the driver side just in front of fuel pressure regulator solenoid, cranked for 10-15 seconds with paper towel underneath and fuel was just pouring out if it. Drenched a stack of paper towels a half inch thick in 10 seconds. Now as i understand it, that means the fpr in the rear of the rail is at fault, correct?

I would show images however i cant figure out how to upload.

Thanks again!!

You unplugged the high pressure line on #4 injector? AFAIK, that only shows that your pump is working.

You may be thinking of the injector bypass test? That is outlined here and in the FSM. It would help identify if a problem with the bypass on one of your injectors is causing your problem, since it is not likely that all four injectors would fail that way.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:02 pm 
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No, i unplugged the rubber line on the DRIVER side of the fuel rail just in front of the fpr that is closest to the firewall. I repeat, NO hard lines were even touched, just return.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Easy, there. I didn't see anything where you hadn't touched the rail. In fact, the low pressure lines are not on the rail, and you said you unplugged a line on the rail, so by inference...

If you're working on the return line, like I said, it is hard to tell if that is the right amount of fuel, because it is looking for relative amounts across injectors. If I read you right, you are probably just looking at how much is returned from all four injectors. No, that doesn't indicate anything about the pressure solenoid, or much of anything else I don't think. Have you downloaded the FSM?

See post #10 of a thread entitled "white smoke" here for a great outline of the test I think you are trying to do.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:20 pm 
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Correct, and my bad - I was mentalizing the fuel rail pic I had posted which was actually shown down-side up, making the fuel-return port appear to be on the passenger-side

At IGN on, begin crank , ECM commands FQS solenoid open and RPS solenoid closed, allowing instantaneous rail pressure rise to operational level - KJ may start at ~1800psi, but fast-idles around 5500~6000psi - ECM then regulates rail pressure by pulsing the FQS solenoid to control pumped volume into the rail, and pulses RPS soleniod to bypass excess unused fuel in the rail back to tank - if the fuel-return is gushing fuel during crank, could be a problem with the RPS fuel pressure solenoid -

However, there is never ever a fire-hose volume gushing thru the fuel rail, so normal bypassed fuel return should be minimal, even with injector-return, because ECM controls all volume thru the injectors, measured in CMM's cubic millimeters to CC's cubic centimeters - that is not a constant flow, but is the excess left over after each injection event, which at cranking should be minimal - faulted flow should be only somewhat more, and could be faulty injector - excessive fuel-return volume would cause excessive foaming in the tank - ECM controls fuel-return volume by regulating input fuel volume pumped from the tank - IIRC FSM indicates return flow rates

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:21 pm 
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greiswig wrote:
Easy, there. I didn't see anything where you hadn't touched the rail. In fact, the low pressure lines are not on the rail, and you said you unplugged a line on the rail, so by inference...


I wasn't trying to be a Richard, was just trying to make sure that what i did read out and was understood correctly, that is all. Sorry if it came across wrong!

gmctd wrote:
Correct, and my bad - I was mentalizing the fuel rail pic I had posted which was actually shown down-side up, making the fuel-return port appear to be on the passenger-side

At IGN on, begin crank , ECM commands FQS solenoid open and RPS solenoid closed, allowing instantaneous rail pressure rise to operational level - KJ may start at ~1800psi, but fast-idles around 5500~6000psi - ECM then regulates rail pressure by pulsing the FQS solenoid to control pumped volume into the rail, and pulses RPS soleniod to bypass excess unused fuel in the rail back to tank - if the fuel-return is gushing fuel during crank, could be a problem with the RPS fuel pressure solenoid -

However, there is never ever a fire-hose volume gushing thru the fuel rail, so normal bypassed fuel return should be minimal, even with injector-return, because ECM controls all volume thru the injectors, measured in CMM's cubic millimeters to CC's cubic centimeters - that is not a constant flow, but is the excess left over after each injection event, which at cranking should be minimal - faulted flow should be only somewhat more, and could be faulty injector - excessive fuel-return volume would cause excessive foaming in the tank - ECM controls fuel-return volume by regulating input fuel volume pumped from the tank - IIRC FSM indicates return flow rates


So by association, if the fps is letting fuel through during crank intervals, and it is supposed to be close ld without returning any fuel, this is an indication it is bad, correct?

Thank you for the valuable information!

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:11 pm 
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I'm not sure what you are saying, so I'll put up what my perception is of the various inlets and outlets of the rail:

The FPS (side of the rail) merely provides a voltage back to the ECM correlating with rail pressure. The solenoid at the back of the rail can dump fuel off to help control pressure, dumping it off the large line just in front of the solenoid. Each injector also has a bypass to make sure it gets air bled off, sufficient fuel for the injection, etc. That excess goes out through the thin return line attaching to the top of each injector.

So the FPS isn't letting fuel through. The solenoid might be, and indeed may have to be, depending on what the pressure is. Otherwise it would just continue to climb. To the maximum the pump can put out.

gmctd is right, though: when I was bleeding my rail, the flow out when cranking was very low. That is with a Kennedy lift pump running, too. If you have fuel gushing out, I think that must be either due to residual pressure in the system or to some other oddness, because AFAIK the CP3 isn't capable of gush volumes even if some sensor malfunctions, including the solenoid on the pump itself. Do you have a lift pump of some kind? It would be the first time I'd heard of a lift pump forcing fuel through the main pump.

If you had a big bubble in the rail, that might cause some of these issues, I suppose. For example, it would help maintain pressure in the rail as the gush of fuel came out. Once the air is out, it takes very little volume out to make the pressure go from very high to very low, because the fuel is not compressible.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:46 pm 
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Im talking about the fuel pressure regulator on the rear most portion of the fuel rail. There is a return port on the driver side of the fuel rail about an inch in front of the fuel pressure regulator. This, as i understand it, is the port to which the regulator bleeds off excess pressure generated by the cp3 injection pump.

When the key is in the start position, again as i understand it, the regulator should be commanded closed by the ecm to allow pressure to build. Which means there should be no fuel escaping via the return port on the driver side of the fuel rail. However fuel is escaping, evidenced by the fuel on the paper towel placed underneath the port during cranking. Also evidenced by live data telling me the pressure spikes to 1800 psi maximum for a brief second, then dropping to 12-1300 psi and hovers here. After releasing key to run position, pressure quickly bleeds off to under 100 psi.

So as the regulator is allowing fuel to return during cranking which it is not supposed to do, i would assume that the regulator is no longer magnetizing or the spring is weak meaning the regulator is bad.

Am i correct? If not, please correct me. And no, no lift pump. That will be after i get the green monster running again lol

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2006 Liberty CRD, 2.5" straight pipe, ccv mod, ts mp8 programmer(couldnt afford GDE HAHA). Otherwise stock.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 kj crd crank no start, code p0093.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:15 pm 
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There is an event occuring which may indicate some other problem: you indicate that rail pressure quickly builds to ~1800psi, then suddenly drops off to ~1300psi:

- this could be the rail pressure solenoid failing during normal pressure rise - 'nuther words, 1800psi blows the solenoid plunger off it's seat, bypassing fuel, causing pressure drop - CP3 can then only maintain bypassed pressure ~1200-1300psi

- could also be ECM sees a related problem when rail is at 1800psi cranking pressure, then commands the rail pressure solenoid to vent, preventing engine from starting and running

- this would more likely be related to faulty Fuel Pressure Sensor -

Rail Pressure is regulated by controlling both the FQS in the CP3 and the RPS solenoid in the rail - ECM demands 1800psi, allowing CP3 to increase rail pressure until the Fuel Pressure Sensor output indicates 1800psi, then begins pulsing the two solenoids to regulate rail pressure and volume, spilling excess volume back to the tank - engine starts and runs, rail pressure increases to normal idle and run pressures available from increased volume as CP3 rpm increases

Note, here: CP3 is known as a constant-volume pump, not dependent on rpm, but only because of ECM control of the Fuel Quantity Solenoid, which controls fuel flow into the hi-pressure pumping section - more flow at low-rpm, less flow at high rpm - rail pressure, of course, is set by ECM control of Rail Pressure Solenoid

Scantool should always show demand pressure and actual pressure to be equal

GDE also indicated a 'nuther low pressure failure preventing start, where a failed injector was constantly bypassing, causing rail pressure to be too low to start - rail pressure builds until ECM fires defective injector, which then doesn't reseat, allowing all fuel to bypass, and rail pressure drops

BTW - been cold, rainy, nasty here so did not take a mo' to go out and get live verification readings - sorry 'bout that....

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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