Gauge options

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:23 pm

Looking to add a 3-in-1 gauge to my new Liberty

Code:

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/3in1-black-face-boost-egt-and-temp.aspx

With one of these:

Code:

http://www.weeks101.com/gaugepanel.html

Has anyone added gauges to their unit?

Looking for specifically:

Is there a port to screw the provided boost sensor into on our manifolds?

Where did you tap for the EGT and trans temp probe?

TIA

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:49 am

For boost pressure sensor install see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69804 .

For "wire" routing thru the firewall behind the bracket on which the fuel filter head is mounted is a rubber grommet the other side of which is above the go pedal on the inside. I suspect it's leftover from when there was a throttle cable. Use this for routing wiring into the cab. BUT don't try to remove and reinstall the grommet; just cut an "X" in it with a skill knife and route the cable. If water worries you seal with silicone.

If you email, not PM, me I can send you some other gauge info that I copied before links went away.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:36 pm

The KJ CRD is not capable of anywhere near 60psi Boost, so you'll need select the 35psi gage to get any resolution down in the 0-20psi range we normally see
- 'nuther words: more is once again not better

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:45 pm

Gauge is on its way to Seth..gonna do a custom pod for vents. Will do a write-up with pics when installed!

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:56 pm

For boost, I'd just drill a hole just above the intake elbow on the valve cover. Most probes come in 1/8 npt so a 1/8 npt tap would do. Tapping in that location would prevent aluminum shards to go inside the engine. Also, there isn't need for more "meat" where you'll thread the probe since there won't be big weights or forces to move the probe from that location.

I wrote a walk through a while ago about installing the gauges and probes, link below:

viewtopic.php?t=79639

Oh, btw, I find it easiest to push the wire through firewall using the main wire harness rubber seal, you won't have to remove anything from the jeep, it is on the left side of the driver floor, where the pedals are. Use a screwdriver to punch a hole in the rubber grommet, then tape any electric wire on a wire hanger or long screwdriver and push that wire through the grommet from the cabin towards engine bay. Untape while it reached the engine bay and tape back your egt or boost wire on the custom wire you just pushed through, then go in the cabin and pull your electric wire back in the cabin, with your probe wires taped to it. At least for me this is the easiest method. Location is also good since there is no heat nor water going in that location.

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:09 pm

Thanks, when I get my pod, I'll let you know

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:48 pm

thermorex wrote:

For boost, I'd just drill a hole just above the intake elbow on the valve cover. Most probes come in 1/8 npt so a 1/8 npt tap would do. Tapping in that location would prevent aluminum shards to go inside the engine. Also, there isn't need for more "meat" where you'll thread the probe since there won't be big weights or forces to move the probe from that location. You're imagining that BOOST pressure is not a force to be reckoned with, eh...........ever seen a bung pop outta a compressor tank at only 15psi? Not a desirable occurance directly adjacent the fuel filter cannister, or the plastic ABS module, or the plastic battery case

I wrote a walk through a while ago about installing the gauges and probes, link below:

viewtopic.php?t=79639

Oh, btw, I find it easiest to push the wire through firewall using the main wire harness rubber seal, you won't have to remove anything from the jeep, it is on the left side of the driver floor, where the pedals are. Use a screwdriver to punch a hole in the rubber grommet, then tape any electric wire on a wire hanger or long screwdriver and push that wire through the grommet from the cabin towards engine bay. Untape while it reached the engine bay and tape back your egt or boost wire on the custom wire you just pushed through, then go in the cabin and pull your electric wire back in the cabin, with your probe wires taped to it. At least for me this is the easiest method. Location is also good since there is no heat nor water going in that location.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:13 pm

gmctd wrote:

You're imagining that BOOST pressure is not a force to be reckoned with, eh...........ever seen a bung pop outta a compressor tank at only 15psi? Not a desirable occurance directly adjacent the fuel filter cannister, or the plastic ABS module, or the plastic battery case

I am not even a bit worried that the bung will pop out, there is enough threading force to easily hold 25 psi any time. And 25 psi is honestly nothing. The hose or the plastic line will probably break before that bung will be pushed out through the threaded aluminum hole. I'd even say the threading would hold easy 100psi, no data/study/proof other than my own "garage mechanic" experience. Plus, the location that bung is mounted is relatively safe, is somebody will add a stick of dynamite under the valve cover and detonate it and the bung will pop out, it will go towards the hood - considering its orientation - (im being optimistic and consider I'd still have a hood after that dynamite explosion), not towards any accessory in the engine compartment. But I agree, mistakes/sh !t happens, even a light nut can mess up your eye just falling from few feet above your head. Regarding "compressor tank goes wrong" topic, it's one thing to have tens of cubic feets of compressed air going all out through a tiny hole versus having one, maybe two cubic feet of compressed air the Crd system has. If I'd put a cork cap in that hole, it would probably just pop out nice and calmly, without even too much noise. So no, I'm personally not worried at all that that snubber will ever pop out from that place.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:16 pm

You're confusing a closed-system compressor tank (bung pops out with immediate pressure bleed-off) with the dynamic pressurized flow from the exhaust-gas driven compressor outlet, constantly forcing compressed air into that very dynamic 2.8L air pump that we all know and love - if you've ever experienced a blow-off of one of the intake hoses under BOOST, you'll get a new appreciation of the forces pumping thru the CAC
- the engine pumps 2.8 cubic liters air every two crank rotations (4-stroke\cycle design)
- 3.79L is one gallon
- at 2000rpm 15psi BOOST, that's 2800 (1000rpm x 2.8L, 4-stroke design, remember?) cubic liters of air per minute at 15psi, which doesn't bleed-down just because a plug has popped outta that thin aluminum(?) intake elbow
- and let's not forget that 15psi BOOST is on top of normal BARO, which has effectively doubled flow thruput volume of the 2.8L engine, for efffective 5.6L pumped volume, capable of burning same volume of fuel as a 5.6L engine at BARO = MO' POWER......

Any material that requires a drilled\tapped hole must be thick enuff to allow thread depth sufficient to withstand maximum anticipated pressures\forces within - most thin materials have cast-in, forged-in, or welded-on bosses that will allow drilling\tapping to meet that criterion

Unless\until the replacement intake elbow is modifed for a BOOST tap boss, the best\safest place is the unused metric-tapped boss on top of the intake manifold - another comes available with permanent removal of the plastic courtesy-shield over the engine

Remember, the drilled\tapped hole must be big enuff for the particular npt fitting chosen, but the actual access port hole need only be ~1/8" - most BOOST gauges come with 1/8" aluminum or nylon tubing (anything larger is merely compensation for a short p*nis) - if you look into the 1/8" fitting on the gauge, you'll usually see ~0.35" hole feeding the bourdon tube - this prevents gauge damage due to sudden violent pressure excursions - such as the afore-mentioned dynamite in the intake manifold............

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:37 pm

The glow shield gauges don't use tubing, they provide a sensor to screw in and a pigtail/harness, I bought a adapter to use that sensor in a 1/8 NPT hole

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:43 pm

ArmyChief wrote:

The glow shield gauges don't use tubing, they provide a sensor to screw in and a pigtail/harness, I bought a adapter to use that sensor in a 1/8 NPT hole My MAXTOW 30psi gauge, chosen for expanded resolution at the BOOST pressures the KJ is capable of producing, has tubing and 1/8"npt fitting - electrical sensor or mechanical fitting, either type requires the same mounting-safety consideration

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:53 pm

I was not arguing about install

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:00 pm

ArmyChief wrote:

I was not arguing about install

No prob, Chief - just being clearly precise - not everyone is aware of various saftey requirements and material limitations for installing various and sundry accessories

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:02 pm

Gmctd, I am not trying to stir a debate with you, so please don't take my disagreement with you wrong. You referenced the air compressed tank comparison, that's why I used it. In my opinion, that comparison is not relevant at all in this conversation. Regardless of engine displacement which is also irrelevant in this example, pressure is pressure. Plus, pressure is generated by the turbo, if lets say the snubber will be pushed out by an unfortunate event (and will be pushed upwards, since that's how it's mounted not towards engine compartment), an under boost code will immediately be triggered, it will be a pressure bleed through about a 3/8 hole, right? How much pressure that turbo can hold when there is a bleed through that 3/8 hole? I doubt will be more than few psi, that if the limp mode is not triggered (don't recall if under boost will trigger a limp or not). I know, I don't have any measurements or scientific data to back up what I say (and neither do you, considering the above conditions - i.e. how much the pressure will still be in the intake with a 3/8 hole in it), I'm just using my common sense based on my "enthusiast" mechanic experience. I can hold 25 psi with my bare hands, it's really not a lot of force. I am 100% sure that my snubber won't ever be pushed out, even if I double the pressure. I have a little over 10k since I installed it, I hit few times 23-ish psi of boost, it's still firmly placed as it was before. The 1/8 npt is a relatively fine thread, there are easy 3-4 threads in the "thin" aluminum wall, plus the torquing force. It would take way more than 25 psi of pressure to strip those threads and push that snubber out.

Now, regarding where you recommend the location for the boost, is it a "safer" place? Maybe, and only because there are more threads, but again, I don't think this matters on the modest 25 psi of pressure. [edit] The main reason I chose that location is the convenience of not making a mess with drilling in the valve that corresponds to the intake. Also, I am not trying to convince anybody to follow my example, this is how I did it, it is a proven solution, who doesn't want to follow my example, that's their choice. At the end, the owner has to be happy with the choice he makes. [end edit]

In the below pic (an "experiment" I've toyed with a while ago), the valve is mounted in plastic, it's about the thickness of the valve cover, no epoxy, nothing but the valve threaded in plastic with plumber tape. That cylinder holds 60 psi of pressure without issues. I am really not worried a bit about the "thin" aluminum wall not holding my modest 25 psi of pressure.

If you want, let me know, I'll snap a pic with a pressure gauge to show you

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:34 pm

We're merely hashing out opinions, which is what these forums are all about - my constant concern is safety for all

Any material reacts differently at ambient temperature than at the extremes to which it will constantly be exposed - f'rinstance, brass expands\contracts at a much different rate than aluminum, even when both have same mass\thickness

Your 1/8" brass fitting reacts very much differently than the thin walls of that aluminum elbow - the aluminum will expand quicker than the brass, making the 1~2-thread tapped hole larger than when you tapped it, reducing any resistance to movement of the brass fitting - continued cycles allow more movement

These constant heating\cooling cycles, plus the constant pressurizing\depressurizing of the thin aluminum will reduce the interference-fit and strength of the tapped tubing\fitting interface

That's the main reason modern aluminum aircraft are retired after so many hours - the constant pressurization\depressurization from ground to 35000ft and back work-hardens the aluminum used thruout the fusilage, causing resultant cracks at the joints and in various panels - and that's ambient to cold, cold to ambient, seldom warmer than ~105*

Consider this: the elbow is often exposed to repeated zero to pressure, pressure to zero, ambient to hot, hot to ambient in temperate climes, cold to hot, hot to cold in winter climes - there's much more stress generated in the intake system and to that thin aluminum elbow tubing, than perhaps you are aware

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:42 pm

gmctd wrote:

We're merely hashing out opinions, which is what these forums are all about - my constant concern is safety for all

Any material reacts differently at ambient temperature than at the extremes to which it will constantly be exposed - f'rinstance, brass expands at a much different rate than aluminum, even when both have same mass\thickness

Your 1/8" brass fitting reacts much very differently than the thin walls of that aluminum elbow - the aluminum will expand quicker than the brass, making the one-thread tapped hole larger than when you tapped it, reducing any resistance to movement of the brass fitting - continued cycles allow more movement

These constant heating\cooling cycles, plus the constant pressurizing\depressurizing of the thin aluminum will reduce the interference-fit and strength of the tapped tubing\fitting interface

That's the main reason modern aluminum aircraft are retired after so many hours - the constant pressurization\depressurization from ground to 35000ft and back work-hardens the aluminum used thruout the fusilage, causing resultant cracks at the joints and in various panels - and that's ambient to cold, cold to ambient, seldom warmer than ~105*

Consider this: the elbow is often exposed to repeated zero to pressure, pressure to zero, ambient to hot, hot to ambient in temperate climes, cold to hot, hot to cold in winter climes - there's much more stress generated in the intake system and to that thin aluminum elbow tubing, than perhaps you are aware

Glad you're a good sport gmctd

.

So the moral of the story would be NEVER FLY WITH THE CRD! Lol.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:41 pm

My previously-posted posits being correct and factual, it is not necessarily about being a good sport - because I am dyslexic, I usually read back thru all preceding posts to ensure that I am operating on correct input and information - having done so, it became clear that I had mis-read your chosen drill\tap location, that being in the engine cover directly above the flanged intake port - I'm not aware of the aluminum thickness in that area, but it must be thicker than the 6061 elbow, which is a very high mechanical strength aluminum material, but is not thick enuff to be drilled\tapped - drilling\tapping the engine cover prior to mounting the new elbow would then be a good idea, if thick enuff to afford safe operation, allowing resulting aluminum curliques to drop thru the open port

I continue to recommend one of the unused bosses in that area which are designed to endure various stresses encountered in that area - so, with caution, and in the immortal words of Emily Latella on SNL: never mind....................

hucorey · **Joined:** Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:29 am **Posts:** 378

Did you choose glowchit because of price? They are notorious known for not lasting more than 1-2 years. Inaccurate readings too, made in china. Middle of the road Autometer or Isspro EV2 gauges. Isspro is made in USA in Oregon.

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:47 am

hucorey wrote:

Did you choose glowchit because of price? They are notorious known for not lasting more than 1-2 years. Inaccurate readings too, made in china. Middle of the road Autometer or Isspro EV2 gauges. Isspro is made in USA in Oregon.

Nope, I choose them cause it was the only 3-1 gauge that I found when Google searching.

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

hucorey wrote:

Did you choose glowchit because of price? They are notorious known for not lasting more than 1-2 years. Inaccurate readings too, made in china. Middle of the road Autometer or Isspro EV2 gauges. Isspro is made in USA in Oregon.

I've read that about the Glowshift gauges. I have also read that they work OK. I have Isspro gauges in my 1998 12 valve Dodge.

ArmyChief wrote:

Nope, I choose them cause it was the only 3-1 gauge that I found when Google searching.

I want to install a gauge(s) in my wife's CRD. I have searched and searched, but the only 3-1 gauges I can find are Glowshift and Westach. The Westach's usually have CHT in them or some aviation related combination. I found some quad gauges, but they all have a fuel gauge in them. I'm considering two McNally dual gauges; one in the vent using Weeks101 gauge mount and the other on top of the dash by the A-pillar.

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