I'm on a quest to claim absolute victory

79wolf · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:24 pm

I figured I should start a new thread instead of highjacking others, so...

Hi all! New owner of a dark blue 05 crd. Only seriously considered buying one after finding this site. After reading good and bad I decided it was worth taking a chance. The guy I bought mine from dropped the price enough after the tranny started needing warmed up in neutral for a few seconds before it would go into drive. A quart of fluid later with added lucas and all is well. And yes it had the cel on from the maf unplugged , but after a GDE eco tune that is gone as well. After 300 miles I consider myself lucky, especially considering the Mishimoto hoses, second set of A/R wheels, weather tech floor covers, grocery rack, and predator tuner it came with for a price well below blue book. And the timing belt has been documented at 109,xxx and sits at 126,xxx now. So far I've removed the predator, added the GDE, and topped off fluids. Hopefully everything will hold through winter, but once warmer weather returns I can turn this into my own mpg project, the main reason I got it.

Thanks for all the help so far, and for all the help I know I will need in the future.

P.S. Anyone want a predator module?

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:44 pm

Enjoy..I just got mine last week.

Hows your thermostat? (Temp gauge near 1/4?)

79wolf · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:39 pm

ArmyChief wrote:

Hows your thermostat? (Temp gauge near 1/4?)

Just a tic under half, warms up quicker than i thought too

Also along those lines, we've been getting under 20 degrees F here in central Illinois, so far it starts just as good as any gas truck I've had, not sure when I should start plugging it in

mecne · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:17 pm

ArmyChief wrote:

Enjoy..I just got mine last week.

Hows your thermostat? (Temp gauge near 1/4?)

Where are you located ?
It's easy to add a few details under your Forum User Control Panel .
I'm in Ontario Canada , and running at 1/4 gauge in the past week with -5 to -10 Celsius temps . Week before with + 5 to + 10 Celsius I was running about 1/2 gauge . I left my mechanical fan off when I finished the engine work a few weeks ago.
Looking at getting a front cover for the up coming -20 to - 30 C temps coming in the heart of the winter, leaning towards the Fia one .

Army Ranger · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:27 am

Welcome! It's good to see someone going after fuel economy, I had considered it myself but found an extremely good deal on an OME lift that I just couldn't resist.

Block off the grill top and bottom, it helps me bump FE in the winter months.

Keep us posted on your progress with FE.
...and I'll take that Predator off your hands!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:18 am

You probably should consider plugging it in when ambient over night temps are dropping below 20F and certainly when they go below 10F. That said it doesn't have to be plugged in all that long to warm up the coolant. The heater only pulls about 400w at 3.3amps so any common home lighting timer will work, I recommend on with a battery clock backup, to trigger the block heater ca. 2 hrs before startup. However, remember that the block heater doesn't do anything for fluids in the transfer case, transmission, or differential so take it ease for the first 5 miles or so to get those fluids warming up. In fact the transmission won't even shift into upper gears until its fluid reaches a preset temperature.

Army Ranger · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:59 pm

papaindigo wrote:

You probably should consider plugging it in when ambient over night temps are dropping below 20F and certainly when they go below 10F. That said it doesn't have to be plugged in all that long to warm up the coolant. The heater only pulls about 400w at 3.3amps so any common home lighting timer will work, I recommend on with a battery clock backup, to trigger the block heater ca. 2 hrs before startup. However, remember that the block heater doesn't do anything for fluids in the transfer case, transmission, or differential so take it ease for the first 5 miles or so to get those fluids warming up. In fact the transmission won't even shift into upper gears until its fluid reaches a preset temperature.

I use the block heater as soon as I start seeing the glow plug light come on in the fall (late Sept.). It certainly helps FE.
That's good information to know. I noticed the transmission was doing exactly what you described the other day.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:14 pm

mecne wrote:

I'm in Ontario Canada , and running at 1/4 gauge in the past week with -5 to -10 Celsius temps . Week before with + 5 to + 10 Celsius I was running about 1/2 gauge . I left my mechanical fan off when I finished the engine work a few weeks ago.

I notice this is your 1st winter with the CRD. I'd suggest you may have an issue. I've always been able to manage a hair below 1/2 right down to -30C. Yeah, it takes ages to get there and it drops pretty quickly in stop go conditions but while moving it's right up there. The only time it couldn't hold the temperature up was when the thermostat failed.

They don't really like the cold. Tough to start and rattles like hell for the first few seconds. Takes forever to heat up. Takes forever for the tranny to warm up to a point where the TC will lock up or shift to 5th. The ceramic GPs are ticking time bombs and the alternatives are inadequate, the winter fuel economy sucks.

None of this is getting any better with age so I've decided to take mine off the road over the winter.

79wolf · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:12 pm

I found a little time today to put it up on ramps. I was surprised more than once while crawling under it. Our escalade from california has more rust than this. I can plainly read every tag and sticker underneath. I am more than happy since this is from the midwest, and am feeling very lucky as well. Let's hope it stays that way. I was also surprised when I was tracing back oil splatters and found an ehm. Good news is this is more evidence that someone knew the issues these motors have and what to do about them, but the ehm was one thing I wasn't planning on doing since this is going to see ice and snow. I am going to read the forums a bit more before I decide. Feel free to chime in here if you want. :JEEPIN:

P.S. I am going to hold on to the predator for a bit, I have an experiment in mind first.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:44 pm

temp gauge at 1/4 means the thermostat is dead (they die open)

should always be a tick left of 1/2.

either need a new thermostat - or add a Stant http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64333

ebbnflow · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:58 pm

I'd ditch the EHM at least for the winter. A frozen EHM can cause rear main seal leaks if the hose freezes and pressurizes the crankcase.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:55 pm

Add a ProVent and do away with that EHM! It is not the best option for your motor especially in very cold climates where the possibility of it freezing up exists.... The CCV requires some negative pressure to operate properly.
Read this thread and be informed:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80491
:wink:

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:16 pm

mecne wrote:

ArmyChief wrote:

Enjoy..I just got mine last week.

Hows your thermostat? (Temp gauge near 1/4?)

Where are you located ?
It's easy to add a few details under your Forum User Control Panel .
I'm in Ontario Canada , and running at 1/4 gauge in the past week with -5 to -10 Celsius temps . Week before with + 5 to + 10 Celsius I was running about 1/2 gauge . I left my mechanical fan off when I finished the engine work a few weeks ago.
Looking at getting a front cover for the up coming -20 to - 30 C temps coming in the heart of the winter, leaning towards the Fia one .

Florida..updated my profile for you

Rocky05 · **Joined:** Fri May 17, 2013 11:38 pm **Posts:** 44

mecne wrote:

ArmyChief wrote:

Enjoy..I just got mine last week.

Hows your thermostat? (Temp gauge near 1/4?)

Where are you located ?
It's easy to add a few details under your Forum User Control Panel .
I'm in Ontario Canada , and running at 1/4 gauge in the past week with -5 to -10 Celsius temps . Week before with + 5 to + 10 Celsius I was running about 1/2 gauge . I left my mechanical fan off when I finished the engine work a few weeks ago.
Looking at getting a front cover for the up coming -20 to - 30 C temps coming in the heart of the winter, leaning towards the Fia one .

Is that a puffy jacket stuffed into your heater? I don't mean any disrespect, but is that what these diesels need to survive in colder climes? Many people like to claim that these are the same motors used in the London cabs, but they forget that it rarely freezes in London. What glow plugs have you found to be adaquate under such conditions?

Where I live it can easily drop to 10 to 30°F at night, but warms up to about °65F during the day. How do you cope with varied temperature swings?

79wolf · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:04 am

A few hundred miles more down the road and all is still good. I decided to keep the EHM until the weather gets bad, then switch it back. I'll add a permanent solution to my to-do list for spring.

As far a mileage goes, I finally got a full hand calculated tank run through. I was slightly disappointed when I got 20 mpg, especially when I know my speedo is faster than it should be, meaning my mileage is actually a lil less than that. My commute is 85 miles per day: 60 miles flat land 70 mph, 15 miles flat land 55 mph, and the other 10 miles are in town under 40 mph through 7 stop lights. I also drive very easy, because I'm trying to get economy. But here are my thoughts:

First thing I'm going to change is my idle time. I'm letting it idle for about 3 minutes before shutting down (not changing that) but have been letting it warm up for about 10 minutes. I'm going to cut this in half at least and try it, but with it being colder out I don't want to push too much cold fluid around. How long does everyone let theirs warm up for?

Secondly, there was a 20 mile stretch that I had the 4 wheel drive engaged. I've had 4x4 before and know you lose mileage, but I'm hoping that little bit wouldn't change and entire tank's mileage that much. I guess I will know for sure in a month or so.

Third, I'm adding 4 oz of Optilube XPD, and thinking of switching over to Almagamated. Anyone have an opinion between these 2? I've read the other posts with other additives, but haven't see anyone on here talk about these 2 yet.

And finally, I have my list of things to add to improve mileage that I've read on here, but if anyone wants to add their :2cents:

I'm more than happy to read it. Thanks again all!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:06 am

My

:
1. check your owner's manual (top shelf in glove box or can be downloaded from "Owners" link on Jeep web site) on turbo cool down time. A 3 minute cool down idle is way too long especially if you are coming off a stretch with lots of stop lights. For example the last 0.5 miles to my house or ca. 3 miles plus that 1/2 mile from the interstate involves speeds of ca. 25-45, the former in that 1/2 mile, in which case by the time I've hit my driveway the turbo has long since cooled down from hwy speeds and needs less than 1 min for final cool down. I can accomplish that in the 200 yds from the entrance to my court and the stop in my driveway. Bottom line you can probably cut that cool down idle period more or less in half if not less.
2. pardon the rant but the "warm up" idle recommendation dates back to the days of single weight oil and has not been recommended by manufactures of vehicles or oil for decades not to mention it does nothing for the fluids outside the engine. Ideally plug your block heater in on a timer set for 2 hrs before crank up in temps below say 15F which will warm up the engine coolant and oil and rather quickly provide cabin heat. Regardless of whether or not you plug the block heater in forget that wasted 10 minutes of warm up - hop in Jeep; crank up; fiddle with radio/seat belt/etc for say 30 seconds to let oil pressure come up; drive away being gently until the coolant temp gauge needle starts to come off the pin (NOTE - I'm assuming that after driving a while that gauge needle gets to say 1/2 a needle width left of vertical - if not your tstat is failed and cutting into mpg); then drive at "reasonable" speeds until the gauge is say at 1/4; keep in mind the tranny won't shift into top gear/OD until tranny fluid is warm enough.
3. as I recall stoutdog said using 4-wheel full time did not cut into his winter mpg much
4. speedo and odometer get data from different sources and can be off +-5% in different directions. I'd suggest a GPS test to generate an accurate odometer correction factor to apply to your hand mpg calculations.

MM53 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:07 pm

I will let the vehicle warm up at least 3 to 5 minutes 10 might be excessive not as much for the oil like in the old days but for the clearances on the bearings and all the internal dimensions because they will change as the vehicle warms up

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:17 am

Papaindigo, please don't mind me but I disagree with 2 things. If block heater is not plugged in, then warming up the engine to thin the oil a bit is not a bad idea, even in the summer on 80-100 degrees when the car sat for a while. My oil pressure starts dropping under 80 psi while idling when oil starts warming a bit over 100 degrees. It's using more fuel, but the engine at idle (with no ac or other "consumers") has minimal wear versus when driving. Second, turbo needs at least 30 seconds cool down (I think the minimum manual says is "less than a minute" and it goes up to 4-5 minutes while towing on highway, which per my egt observations seems a safe bet), and this in the winter after driving "lightly" in the city (meaning no hard acceleration, no towing, no highway). While transmission is in drive, the egt shows 400 degrees when jeep is stopped (measured at manifold on cyl #3 - slightly higher than on the turbo), any acceleration would increase the temperature no matter how light you go on acceleration. The only time egt shows under 400 is when driving downhill with no acceleration or when transmission is in Park or Neutral. I always turn off the engine when egt is lower than 300 degrees, but as I know it is safe to turn off when less than 350, all synthetic oils should should be fine at that temperature without issues. I may not be very accurate with the 350 limit but this is what I remember and its a safe bet for me to go with 300 turn off temperature.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:57 am

I never mind folks disagreeing with me that's how we learn things.

I agree warming up the engine is a good thing but I disagree on doing so by letting the vehicle idle in the driveway. Doing that may warm up the engine oil and coolant some (how much I don't know but I do know that on the 4 diesel vehicles I've owned, 2 Dodge & 2 Jeep, that even in N. FL it's impossible to reach operating temp from crankup by idling) but it does nothing for the transfer case/differential/bearing lube/etc. In fact warming up by the idle in the driveway method and then transiting to normal operating speeds can be harmful to those other systems. With or without the block heater it's better to crank up; fiddle with seat belt/radio/etc for the 10-30 seconds it takes for fluids to start circulating properly; back out of the driveway; and go on your merry way PROVIDED you keep speeds, as I said, reasonable which to me means below 45mph at least until the temp gauge begins to move up. I'll cheerfully admit that doing so from my house is easy 1) I'm in N. FL so 15F is arctic but 2) more importantly there is no way I can exceed 35mph in the first 1mile from my house by which time the temp gauge is moving. Would my opinion on the process be a bit different if I lived just a few feet from the I-10 on ramp that I had to take to get to work; yes but I still wouldn't idle in the driveway for 10 minutes. I think we all probably agree that avoiding excess "stress" on lubricated systems when they are cold is a good thing although we may have minor differences of opinion on how to avoid that "stress".

I don't see that we disagree at all on turbo cool down. It's needed, you have a gauge (mine needs to be installed) so you have figures, but for the case on point 3 minutes is a bit long per the Owner's Manual chart. If I understand the OPs driving description correctly 1-2 minutes or less would be appropriate and might help his mpg. For what it's worth when highway driving I have a handy "chipped" spare key so if I pull off to grab a bite or some such I can park the vehicle and lock it while leaving it running so the turbo can cool down that 3-5 recommended minutes.

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:29 am

Correct with warming the engine at full operating temperature, I was thinking just to warm it up a bit so the engine oil is not that thick. Just leaving the engine running for tens of minutes is a waste of fuel, totally agree. The transmission fluid usually warms up a bit too from the engine, but when it's very cold, I think it's insignificant. That's why there are oil warmers for, I just got a 250w warmer with magnet that I'm planning to test on the transmission when it gets below 10 degrees, since I also need to test weeks intake heater on colder weather when jeep parked outside for a while, I'm just curious how efficient the Trans warmer will be in keeping the transmission fluid warm. There are also warmers that mount inside the pan, but what I saw without looking too much were warmers without thermostat nor specs on how warm they get, and last thing I need is to warm the transmission to over 200 degrees, lol. One of the reviews stated that the guy used the warmer to burn the water condensation...

Regarding turbo, I think the most the manual says to do cool down is 4 or 5 minutes (but I may be wrong, I read it long time ago), which is for towing and highway. Since I don't tow on the highway, most I did was getting some things from home Depot within 4ish miles, I can't provide any info on how accurate this statement is, but I can say it makes sense for me.

Btw, installing the egt is way easier than you may think, wiring is the hardest and most time consuming part, but if you use an electric wire taped on a long screwdriver or wire coat hanger and push it from the cabin towards the engine bay through the main wire loom gromet and once it reaches the engine bay, untappe it and retape your probe wires then pull it back to the cabin (you may use liquid soap if the hole in the gromet is too small) , it will simplify everything considerably. Since I remember you said you got a 3 in 1 gauge, don't forget that weeks now has a gauge pod that fits that size.

And not lastly, common sense is the king in everything, driving easily is the best and most recommended thing till the engine reaches operating temperature and oil goes over 150 degrees.

I'm on a quest to claim absolute victory

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