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| Alternator bracket http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80730 |
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| Author: | greiswig [ Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alternator bracket |
So...I pride myself on being able to end a major repair with no extra parts, no "Hmmm...I wonder where that part was supposed to go" moments. But at the end of this cylinder head replacement, I found myself with an extra. Not a nut or bolt, but rather a big chunk of aluminum with three holes in it. It's the upper bracket for the alternator. The thing is, if you look at the way the alternator mounts, it has two bolts in front and the rear bolt mounts to another big chunk of aluminum that is underneath the alternator, and which has the threaded receiver for the rear bolt. That upper bracket looks a bit redundant to me, even considering the vibrations that a diesel puts out. Can someone convince me that the upper bracket is really necessary? |
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| Author: | ebbnflow [ Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
I believe that part is only used to help hold the plastic engine cover in place. If you ditched the plastic cover, it should not be an issue. |
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| Author: | flman [ Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
Mine did not have no cover pin on it? It is installed below the top of the valve cover. If you want to chance less support on the serpentine drive line over dealing with 3 more bolts, I wish you luck? I had several extra bolts and my engine weighed a few pounds less when I was done. 
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| Author: | mecne [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
flman wrote: Mine did not have no cover pin on it? It is installed below the top of the valve cover. If you want to chance less support on the serpentine drive line over dealing with 3 more bolts, I wish you luck? I had several extra bolts and my engine weighed a few pounds less when I was done. I had 2 extra bolts when I was finished my recent work ( had it down to the head gasket). I robbed one of the support bolts that bolt a bracket to the FCV , for the Turbo oil return line , as I dropped it into the abyss under the motor .. along with 2 10 mm sockets , an 8 mm sock and wobble extension , but found a screw driver that wasn't mine when trying to fish the sockets out.. Managed to fish 1 of the sockets out ..good thing I have extras |
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| Author: | ebbnflow [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
flman wrote: Mine did not have no cover pin on it? It is installed below the top of the valve cover. If you want to chance less support on the serpentine drive line over dealing with 3 more bolts, I wish you luck? I had several extra bolts and my engine weighed a few pounds less when I was done. Sorry, I should have read OP's post more thoroughly. I was referring to the bracket on the front of the alternator. That one has a nub on top to support the plastic cover. OP is talking about the one on the back. That one is critical in my opinion as it is structural support for the alternator. |
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| Author: | greiswig [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
ebbnflow wrote: OP is talking about the one on the back. That one is critical in my opinion as it is structural support for the alternator. That's the question. With yet another pretty massive cast bracket right underneath, how critical is it to have both? I've seen heavier alternators mount with literally one load-bearing 1/4" bolt and one bolt on a flimsy tensioner. This guy has two solid bolts up front, plus one in the rear, and both rear mounts seem to bolt to the block. So what I'm after is more like "here's why it is critical" rather than "I think it must be critical." 
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| Author: | flman [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
greiswig wrote: ebbnflow wrote: OP is talking about the one on the back. That one is critical in my opinion as it is structural support for the alternator. That's the question. With yet another pretty massive cast bracket right underneath, how critical is it to have both? I've seen heavier alternators mount with literally one load-bearing 1/4" bolt and one bolt on a flimsy tensioner. This guy has two solid bolts up front, plus one in the rear, and both rear mounts seem to bolt to the block. So what I'm after is more like "here's why it is critical" rather than "I think it must be critical." How about you be our test rat and let us know if anything fails with no t bracket installed? 
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| Author: | thermorex [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
I think the purpose of the rear "t" bracket is mainly to hold against vibrations on the fuel pump bracket and alternator. I'm not sure if something would fail if that is removed, but the t bracket being there certainly helps stiffening the whole assembly |
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| Author: | crasher [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
mecne wrote: flman wrote: Mine did not have no cover pin on it? It is installed below the top of the valve cover. If you want to chance less support on the serpentine drive line over dealing with 3 more bolts, I wish you luck? I had several extra bolts and my engine weighed a few pounds less when I was done. I had 2 extra bolts when I was finished my recent work ( had it down to the head gasket). I robbed one of the support bolts that bolt a bracket to the FCV , for the Turbo oil return line , as I dropped it into the abyss under the motor .. along with 2 10 mm sockets , an 8 mm sock and wobble extension , but found a screw driver that wasn't mine when trying to fish the sockets out.. Managed to fish 1 of the sockets out ..good thing I have extras Found all my sockets/extensions/etc from the Sasquatch EGR delete kit I just 'finished'. But I took the wiring harness off the alternator too, when I took off that bracket. Buttoned it all up, remembered reading this thread, so I put the bracket back on. Now I'm, down to 3 bolts and a nut: The battery hold down clamp bolt, The battery pos/neg cable bolts, That big copper nut bastage on top of the alternator. I'm getting ready to thread that nut on...... And I drop it. It bounces off the stud that I'm aiming for, and as God is my witness, it evaporated. I just spent the last 4.5 metric hours looking everywhere within 15 feet of that Jeep for that nut. I used 2 different drop lights and my halogen light stand, I used mirrors, I even used my digital inspection camera with the 3 foot cable optic. I swear that thing went 4th dimensional, and came out in a parallel universe Jeep. If one of ya'll finds a big copper nut in the engine compartment, that they can't explain, send me a PM. (I'm going to post this in the EGR kit thread, too. Maybe somebody there will find it.) |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
greiswig wrote: So...I pride myself on being able to end a major repair with no extra parts, no "Hmmm...I wonder where that part was supposed to go" moments. But at the end of this cylinder head replacement, I found myself with an extra. Not a nut or bolt, but rather a big chunk of aluminum with three holes in it. It's the upper bracket for the alternator. The thing is, if you look at the way the alternator mounts, it has two bolts in front and the rear bolt mounts to another big chunk of aluminum that is underneath the alternator, and which has the threaded receiver for the rear bolt. That upper bracket looks a bit redundant to me, even considering the vibrations that a diesel puts out. Can someone convince me that the upper bracket is really necessary? Consider considering the vibrations that a diesel puts out |
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| Author: | greiswig [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
gmctd wrote: greiswig wrote: So...I pride myself on being able to end a major repair with no extra parts, no "Hmmm...I wonder where that part was supposed to go" moments. But at the end of this cylinder head replacement, I found myself with an extra. Not a nut or bolt, but rather a big chunk of aluminum with three holes in it. It's the upper bracket for the alternator. The thing is, if you look at the way the alternator mounts, it has two bolts in front and the rear bolt mounts to another big chunk of aluminum that is underneath the alternator, and which has the threaded receiver for the rear bolt. That upper bracket looks a bit redundant to me, even considering the vibrations that a diesel puts out. Can someone convince me that the upper bracket is really necessary? Consider considering the vibrations that a diesel puts out I'll reconsider considering it. I did put it back in. I had been thinking that it triangulated back to the block, but it actually attaches to the intake manifold. So for all I know it helps prevent (or cause) stress fractures there. I also suspect that it would be many, many miles before any ill effects of running without it would show up. I spent a fair amount of time looking at the other bracket, and even with a 4 banger diesel, that seems pretty capable of supporting the alternator without a lot of help. |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
That alternator is a fairly large mass on the end of that one compound lever when you consider the torsional twisting and shaking vibrations the li'l puffer bangs out at lower rpms, with additional stress at shutdown post weeks-install - that lever locates the alt for drive-belt tension - the tri-point one behind it stabilizes the mass during twisting\shaking events Remember how long it took for owners to get their minds around the concept of the clutched and rubber-isolated drive-sheave required for 4-cyl Diesel service |
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| Author: | greiswig [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
gmctd wrote: That alternator is a fairly large mass on the end of that one compound lever when you consider the torsional twisting and shaking vibrations the li'l puffer bangs out at lower rpms, with additional stress at shutdown post weeks-install - that lever locates the alt for drive-belt tension - the tri-point one behind it stabilizes the mass during twisting\shaking events Remember how long it took for owners to get their minds around the concept of the clutched and rubber-isolated drive-sheave required for 4-cyl Diesel service Agreed, but...I also know that the stock alternator on my Unimog, for example, is the typical one bolt plus an adjuster bracket. And that engine vibrates like crazy, and is on a rig that bounces around in military settings, and so forth. And I have never heard of a mount failing. This alternator is about the same weight, on a vehicle with a fairly supple suspension and a smoother engine, even with two fewer cylinders. Still, the bean counters obviously were persuaded that it is necessary. I went back and forth before I decided to put it back on when I was under the hood for something else. I'd been without it for 1,000 miles or so without any obvious ill effects. 
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| Author: | thermorex [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
That's an unimog not a jeep, lol. But I am sure the alternator is secured on both front and rear through the pivoting bolt and tensioner on your unimog. The crd alternator is secured with the front 2 bolts that only keep the front side secured not the rear, which is secured in the intake. If those 2 front bolts would be securing the rear side of the alternator and be placed about 180 degrees, it wouldn't need the 3rd supporting bracket in the rear. |
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| Author: | greiswig [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
thermorex wrote: That's an unimog not a jeep, lol. But I am sure the alternator is secured on both front and rear through the pivoting bolt and tensioner on your unimog. The crd alternator is secured with the front 2 bolts that only keep the front side secured not the rear, which is secured in the intake. If those 2 front bolts would be securing the rear side of the alternator and be placed about 180 degrees, it wouldn't need the 3rd supporting bracket in the rear. It has two supporting brackets in the rear. Otherwise I wouldn't have thought it overkill. Nevermind, folks...back to your regularly-scheduled programming. |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
greiswig wrote: thermorex wrote: That's an unimog not a jeep, lol. But I am sure the alternator is secured on both front and rear through the pivoting bolt and tensioner on your unimog. The crd alternator is secured with the front 2 bolts that only keep the front side secured not the rear, which is secured in the intake. If those 2 front bolts would be securing the rear side of the alternator and be placed about 180 degrees, it wouldn't need the 3rd supporting bracket in the rear. It has two supporting brackets in the rear. Otherwise I wouldn't have thought it overkill. Nevermind, folks...back to your regularly-scheduled programming. If you have some pics with the unimog, please post some. Those trucks are awesome... |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
Maybe it's me but sometimes I wonder why we are having certain discussions. In this case we are talking about ca. 1 pound of aluminum and like 3 bolts on the back end of the alternator. Does it supply some extra support (Yes) is it critical (maybe not) does leaving it off do any harm (maybe) does leaving it off provide any benefit (no). As to the missing copper/brass nut I can affirmatively state that there is a black hole (aka neutron star) located under the engine on top of the front skid that actively sucks in anything dropped from the top of the engine and teleports it to another galaxy. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. As to a replacement just find a regular metric nut that fits and screw it on; then run to a good parts store and remove the temporary nut so you can find a copper/brass metric replacement. |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
Yep - leave it like you found it, but not broke................. |
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| Author: | Diver1430 [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternator bracket |
Thanks so much. Now I have a plausible explanation of what happened to my M8,10, 13 and 17 sockets. |
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