it used to be that diesel just worked..
no problems.. no fuss..
no this isn't just about vm diesels..
more about diesels and electronics...
and kinda rant..don't RANT...ignore move to the next post..
it seems to me that the more electronic controls the diesel has the more problems
egr..could be a simple mechanical setup..feed back prefilter if it was using an oil bath filter..soot problem gone!
electronic injection pumps...more problems..more so after PB was removed..
electronic injectors...do they last as long mechanical injectors?? at what cost..7-10X mechanical..

so what's gained?
economy? really? old cummins 12v get 20mpg on the road with a large truck than the jeeps?
polution? well maybe..and maybe under a wider range of operation? maybe?

so have we gone forward?
forget about the power question..
the stock VM2.8 is 160HP..the stock 5.9 cummis24v is 235..this 235 is neutred from Dodge..you auto tranny problems.
same story different engine/tranny time..detune the engine since the tranny cannot handle the power..at the low end..sound familar..

I know different beasts..
but there's some here that trying to to 250hp..good..I hope it works..this should be the standard!

and 400-1000 is easy from the 5.9...500 is nothing..yes the blocks and design are different..
the 4bt can produce more power then the vm2.8..easy..might not turn the RPM's so?

just wondering if all the electronics has moved us forward?

are the newer diesel that much cleaner burning?
not counting the urea cleaning in the exhaust..that not cleaner burning..just cleaning up..

-dkenny

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84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough

In my opinion, yes diesel engines have moved forward, thanks to the epa actually. Diesels are getting more hp per liter than there mechanical grandfathers at the price of complicated systems and reduced reliability, more intense servicing, and in my opinion reduced longevity.

A lot of what you said is why I removed as much computer controlled stuff as I could from my engine to try to get it back to its simple roots. So far it's lived 12k miles at 250-260hp, with plans to up it to 350 within the next year.

Manufacturers are skimping where they can in the engine design to lighten them up. The less weight you have to move the better the mpg rating. Unlike the old days where they built it to last. My old idi 2.2L isuzu's are built 4 times heavier than these vm's.

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.

Yep definitely in the search for better MPG and less pollution diesels have becomes more complex and therefore more troublesome , especially with all of the new electronic "Nannies" in operation.

My 2002 Export CRD with its fixed vane turbo and manual transmission and fewer Nannies gives me next to no trouble....I would love to have the increased power and drive-ability of the newer 2.8L CRDs with the fancy auto-boxes but looking at all of the problems that the newer CRDs give there is no way I would go for a newer CRD ever.

Hopefully this 2002 CRD of mine will last me until old age forces me to get a small basic automatic Asian non-diesel car to travel around in!

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport