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CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
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Author:  Porter.CRD [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
I have a 2006 CRD KJ

Since I bought it (used) I have been having issues with the turbo and now i'm at the point where I have to get it rebuilt, a refurbished one, a used one from another CRD or maybe another way. Which way should I go. I am looking for the cheapest way but it does not matter really just which ever one will last the longest and be the best to do
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Get a new one, don't even think about it. Per Garrett those turbos are not rebuildable, due to very high rpm they spin at at very tight tolerances. A rebuild won't have all those tolerances. Other than that, pay 1100 for new or 600-ish for rebuild... That's your call obviously.

With proper turbo cool down, the turbo will probably last as long as the engine. Put an egt gauge and let the turbo cool down to 300 before turning off the engine. I think the field service manual mentions a graph with the time necessary for cool down, from 4+ min when towing on highway to less than a minute for driving lightly in the city.
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Porter.CRD - where are you located and exactly why do you think you need to replace the turbo? There are a variety of reasons for lack of boost that don't require turbo replacement.
Author:  Porter.CRD [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Thermorex
- I don't know still my brother says to get a new one but my dad wants it rebuilt. I got an estimate for the turbo "Turbocharger Remove&Replace" for a lot. Dont know yet still.

Papaindigo
- Im from Missouri. Reasons why are first when I first bought it they said the turbo and few other things had a issues. We told them we were not going to take it unless they lowered the price or fixed. Which they did both because drove up to Wisconsin twice from Missouri to get it. Turns out when we got home the turbo had problems.
Here are the things i've gotten fixed for the turbo if that tells you anything.
-1st Oil Leak
-Resealed oil return line
-2nd Oil Leak
-Front seal of turbo leaking
-3rd Oil Leak
-Turbo Vac. Solenoid
This is what the shop wrote down. They said that they recommend replacing the turbo.
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
The risk wit rebuilt: if oil slips through the cooper bushings in the exhaust, you have maybe 20-30 seconds till you run out of oil and then you'll need a new engine. This turbo is not the same as the old cummins ones, it spools at tens of thousands rpm. As a rebuilt may work, it's not worth to risk thousands on a new engine versus hundreds extra for a new turbo, but that's just my opinion. Good luck regardless!

The shaft play is a clear indicator of the turbo going down, a minor leak is not a big deal as long as the shaft play (side to side is ok up to 1/16 inch, 1/8 is a bit too much and longitudinal maybe 1/32, should be theoretically barely present - this is just me saying, no manual or other spec data at all). I got rebuilt turbos, most recently for the 300sd I have, I didn't find new ones to be quite honest since that car is very old, I would've gotten one in a heart beat. With that rebuilt turbo, I still have quite a bit of shaft play and some oil, so a rebuilt turbo isn't necessary a better choice. Also, that turbo is meant for about 10-15 psi, way less than crd's.

Best prevention for turbo failure is proper cool down, good quality oil and regular oil changes.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Quote:
-1st Oil Leak-Resealed oil return line -2nd Oil Leak-Front seal of turbo leaking -3rd Oil Leak-Turbo Vac. Solenoid
This is what the shop wrote down. They said that they recommend replacing the turbo.


For what it's worth:
1. pull the air filter to turbo hose; check turbo impeller for play; slight fore/aft is ok; side to side play should be barely perceptible; if more than that turbo needs to be replaced. IMHO rebuilt is not a viable option unless Garrett does it and they don't at least not yet.
2. oil return line is simply gravity feed (e.g. no significant pressure) with a gasket at the top end and a simple push in rubber grommet at the block end. Minor leak at the block end is not uncommon and is harmless as the grommet seal is not all that good.
3. there is no front seal on the turbo. There is a flat washer and a "sleeve" bronze bearing. As thermorex notes is that bearing goes you have a very brief period to shut the engine down before all the oil is pumped out thru the turbo into the exhaust. FYI the CCV (hockey puck size thing on top of the engine) dumps oil loaded crankcase mist into the front of the turbo and that mist can "appear" to be an oil leak in the front side of the turbo.
4. I'm not sure what you mean by "3rd Oil Leak-Turbo Vac. Solenoid". There is no oil in the vicinity of the turbo vacuum solenoid which is on top of the black plastic tower just behind the air filter box. If the solenoid has a problem it can be bypassed (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70602&p=757348&hilit=boost+solenoid#p757348) and is relatively cheap to replace.
5. it's not uncommon for the turbo variable vanes to get stuck or not work properly due to a build up of soot. This can be checked at idle in park. Underneath the vacuum actuator on the turbo is rod extending downward connected to the vane mechanism. If you pull off the vacuum line at the turbo, the arm should drop about 1/2 inch and then raise back up after reconnecting the vacuum line. It is a bit difficult to see the rod, but this is the easiest method to check for proper VGT vane movement. It is possible to clean the vanes but I don't have the methodology handy.
Author:  greiswig [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
papaindigo wrote:
It is possible to clean the vanes but I don't have the methodology handy.


If that becomes necessary, let me know...I've done it. And no, oven cleaner did not work. To do it right involves taking that side of the turbo apart, IMHO.
Author:  gmctd [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
FYI:
a. the KJ turbo is same as the Cummins turbo, but smaller - they both operate at identical rpm, upwards of 100,000rpm

b. the KJ turbo uses VVT Variable Vane Technology
- the cartridge can be rebuilt, but not the turbine scroll, as the technology to repair the VVT area would be prohibitive
- most cost-effective to replace with new

c. the early Cummins-type turbo has a simple wastegate turbine-bypass with a replaceable bushing
- the cartridge is repairable and the waste-gate shaft and bushing is replaceable, so repair is most cost-effective

d. they both use similar bearing\sealing technology on turbine and compressor ends, so professionally rebuilt cartridge is not a problem
- KJ cartridge rebuild is seldom equitable due to VVT technology wear and tear
- why rebuild the cartridge if turbine scroll is unuseable

e. there are kits on eBay for KJ cartridge rebuild, if your turbine scroll and vane-assembly is in good shape
- BUT rebuild is only successful if bearing areas in the cartridge casting is pristine, and if the turbine-shaft bearing-area is pristine on both ends AND you mark the compressor-wheel\shaft position for reassembly to that position
- imbalance is most destructive at 100,000rpm, even in a new cartridge

f. later Cummins 24v CRD turbos went to electronic stepper-motor VVT technology, stepped by the big 6-cyl ECM as further control of NOx - still compresses atmosphere at upward of 100,000rpm, tho
Author:  Porter.CRD [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Okay thank you guys for all the advice and information. I can know have a little knowledge about this turbo when talking to them.

The information I put for my oil leaks was from the receipts that which is what the people wrote down. I have not 100% decided what to do with my turbo since I have took it to a few places in the past and they did work on it but not fixing it. Now i'm taking the turbo off and its going to these tech turbo place. They will have the final call on what to do with it. Personally I want to just throw a new one on but family says other. The only good thing about them taking a look at it is they do warranty the turbo for whatever they do to it if it breaks again its free. I would just say put a new turbo on but im close to christmas and need a little money.
Author:  Porter.CRD [ Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
I got my turbo rebuilt. It definitely sounds different and louder! The only other things i've noticed is that the my jeep is way slower. Little to no pickup from 40+. I know its a jeep its not suppose to be fast but just before I had this turbo rebuilt it had pickup. I just did the timing belt and water pump. Could that be a contribute to it? I could post a video of the turbo sound if any of you could tell me that it sounds right. I know usually if your turbo is louder thats not a good thing unless you have cold air intake.
Author:  gmctd [ Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Check the rubber vacuum hoses for leaks or loose-fitting on the hose barbs - must be tight to activate the actuator diaphragm

Also, they could have mis-adjusted the actuator linkage length
Author:  Porter.CRD [ Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
If one of the hoses has a leak then once I hit a certain amount of RPMS it wont go any higher right? Im going to go pop the hood and look?

First i've got to drive it. It was fine on the way to school. When I left school my friend needed some help with his car. When I stopped at a stop sign it died. I thought my fuel lost prime being on a hill when it died. Then every stop or even slowing down I had to put it in neutral or it would have a hard jerk (kind of like when you're with someone who doesn't know how to drive a manual and they throw it in 3rd not second). Then like I said early no pickup. My friend didn't make it far. I had to turn to go get him and with all these problems I had to turn around in this fancy area no one would let me over and rode my butt. I got flipped off quite a few times by this people fancy cars.
Author:  AndrewCRD [ Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD Having Some Issues Need Help
Ive recently had to scramble for some part prices and best place ive found was ebay.co.uk there seem to be lots of these engines in Europe ... duh I guess.
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