Pad style heater on the Transmission pan?

mecne · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:12 am

Has anyone used a pad style heater on the transmission pan?

I use the block heater , but am looking for a way to warm the transmission fluid on our cold Canadian mornings .
My commute is 95% highway , I am 5 to 6 KM into my commute on the highway when the transmission warms up enough to shift into top gear.

Not looking at anything huge , 4"x 5" 150 watt.

Part Number: KAT 24150
Product Line: Engine Heaters
Attributes:
Heater Attachment Method : Adhesive
Heater Dimensions : 4" x 5"
Heater Model # : 24150
Heater Operating Voltage : 120 Volts AC
Heater Power Cord Length : 5'
Heater Wattage : 150 Watts
Recommended Quart Capacity Oil Pan : 5 - 8 QT
Heater Manufacturer : Kat's Heaters
Heater Recommended Application : Oil Pan & Transmission Pan Heater

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:41 am

I have not, but I think it is a good idea in climes like urs - just remember it's there when splashing thru deep puddles\streams\snow drifts, and when hi-centering sloped drive-way\parking-lot entrances\ect, and when off-roading

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:49 am

What I don't like about this, and any electric blankets or oil heater for that reason is the fact they don't mention the max temperature and lack of a thermostatic control. This one you showed says is thermostatically controlled, it may in fact have some sort of control but it is definitely not user accessible, and because it won't specify the max temperature, I have no clue how hot will it get. One review on Amazon said that in 2 minutes the heat reached 200 degrees with the pad mounted in a thin plate, which is I believe a bit too much to warm the trans oil so hot... I am also looking for something similar, I saw they have a 50w mini pad, I wonder how would that behave...

Edit: I just got the 50w pad, I'll try it and post the results.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:01 am

One thing to remember here is oil is much thicker than water, requiring more thermal input for desired temperature rise

You may only feel burn sensation with reddened skin if splashed by 220* boiling water

You will be blistered and burned if splashed by 220* hot oil, tho it is not boiling

Oil takes longer to heat - oil retains heat much longer

Winter climes skew thermal input negatively

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:37 am

Very true, my point is only regarding transmission temperatures, a high wattage heater for engine oil is probably better, 220 is not bad for engine oil, but I don't want that (personally) on my trans fluid.

Another point is where is the jeep parked and how long stays plugged. There are warmers out there that can raise -40 to +60 in an hour. For quick starts, that's great, for somebody that plugs in at night in the garage (like me) this is way overkill and there is a danger to overheat something...

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:43 am

gmctd wrote:

One thing to remember here is oil is much thicker than water, requiring more thermal input for desired temperature rise

You may only feel burn sensation with reddened skin if splashed by 220* boiling water

You will be blistered and burned if splashed by 220* hot oil, tho it is not boiling

Oil takes longer to heat - oil retains heat much longer

Winter climes skew thermal input negatively

I don't think this is true. I am pretty sure water has something like 2x or higher specific heat than most oils and is denser meaning it has a much higher heat content. I think the only reason you get burnt by hot oil worse than water is because it sticks to you and doesnt evaporate or easily come off. It probably transfers heat better too.

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:53 am

I think oil is indeed less dense than water, at least that's why water deposits on the bottom of oil pans and fuel tank.

Thickness, or viscosity-wise, oil is the king. At least in our "Crd" interpretation

dirtmover · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:42 pm

mecne wrote:

My commute is 95% highway , I am 5 to 6 KM into my commute on the highway when the transmission warms up enough to shift into top gear.

Yeah, I feel your pain but for me it's more problematic coming home. On the worst days it can take a good 10 minutes. That's a long time to be driving at highway speeds in 4th with no TC lock.

thermorex wrote:

This one you showed says is thermostatically controlled, it may in fact have some sort of control but it is definitely not user accessible, and because it won't specify the max temperature, I have no clue how hot will it get. One review on Amazon said that in 2 minutes the heat reached 200 degrees with the pad mounted in a thin plate, which is I believe a bit too much to warm the trans oil so hot.

At -20C and below the heat loss is significant. I don't think you need to worry too much about it getting too hot.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:55 pm

Correct - all things fluid are compared to water weight and density, which is ~8.3lbs\gal and 1.0

Lacquer thinner, tri-chloroethane, tri-chloroethylene, carbon tetrachloride, Methy-ethyl-keytone esters, alcohol, etc are heavier than water
Paint thinner, petroleum naphtha, Diesel fuel, charcoal starter, kerosene, etc, are lighter than water

Water is just as heavy as water
Motor oil is lighter than water

Water exits a quart bottle rapidly, quickly dripping off
Oil exits a quart bottle slowly, dribbling slowly, then dripping off slowly

Drip water on a surface, return later and there is no evidence of the spill
Drip oil on a surface, return later and the drip is now a large-diameter wet oily circle

Water quickly conducts and removes heat from surrounding surfaces
Oil absorbs heat slowly and retains absorbed heat much longer

Water quick-quenches hot steel
Oil slow-quenches hot steel

Water\ethylene\propylene glycol mix is used as engine coolant because absorbed heat-content is easier removed in the air-over radiator
Oil is not used because slowly-absorbed heat content is not easily removed in air-over radiator

Boiling water\steam interface removes much more heat than liquid water
Boiling oil vapors are ignite-able, just opposite of required thermal transfer into air

Electric radiator-type space heaters do not use water for heat radiation - heat-loss is rapid
Electric radiator-type space heaters do use oil for heat radiation - heat-loss is slow

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

gmctd wrote:

Correct - all things fluid are compared to water weight and density, which is ~8.3lbs\gal and 1.0

Lacquer thinner, tri-chloroethane, tri-chloroethylene, carbon tetrachloride, Methy-ethyl-keytone esters, alcohol, etc are heavier than water all in red are lighter than water
Paint thinner, petroleum naphtha, Diesel fuel, charcoal starter, kerosene, etc, are lighter than water

Water is just as heavy as water??
Motor oil is lighter than water

Water exits a quart bottle rapidly, quickly dripping off
Oil exits a quart bottle slowly, dribbling slowly, then dripping off slowly

Drip water on a surface, return later and there is no evidence of the spill
Drip oil on a surface, return later and the drip is now a large-diameter wet oily circle

Water quickly conducts and removes heat from surrounding surfaces
Oil absorbs heat slowly and retains absorbed heat much longer

Water quick-quenches hot steel
Oil slow-quenches hot steel

Water\ethylene\propylene glycol mix is used as engine coolant because absorbed heat-content is easier removed in the air-over radiator Used because they are miscible, won't freeze at operating temperatures and water has highest heat capacity.
Oil is not used because slowly-absorbed heat content is not easily removed in air-over radiator

Boiling water\steam interface removes much more heat than liquid water ? at what temperature??
Boiling oil vapors are ignite-able, just opposite of required thermal transfer into air

Electric radiator-type space heaters do not use water for heat radiation - heat-loss is rapid
Electric radiator-type space heaters do use oil for heat radiation - heat-loss is slow oil is used because it won't boil & become steam.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:19 am

Consider this (may be a question of semantics, as in specific heat):
Water has high heat (thermal transfer) capacity only in closed system with some form of heat exchanger to pass that heat into another medium, such as air, or water - takes a 16lb (psi) radiator cap to prevent the coolant from boiling off at only 220F

Water boils into water vapor (meaning it quickly absorbs thermal input) at ~220F, depending on altitude (BARO pressure) , quickly dissipating into ambient temps, thus having low heat capacity

Oil is just barely beginning to haze-over at 220F - boiling point of oil is slightly higher than 220F, IIRC

Water reacts quickly to thermal input, thus having greater capacity to remove heat from an object
Oil reacts slowly to thermal input, reducing it's capacity to quickly remove heat from an object, but increasing it's heat-storage capacity

Considerable time is required to bring oil temperature down from, say, 500F at ambient temperatures, or even 200F - must be some high heat-capacity in there, somewhere, eh

Try placing ur hand on the radiator ~30mins after shutting down from traffic conditions

Then try placing ur hand on the engine oil-pan or transmission oil-pan immediately after the radiator familiarization
If what you've posted is not semantics confusion, I think you'll be surprised, and unpleasantly so, while laying on the ground under the KJ

Point being, the heat-pad on the trans oil-pan is not as worrisome as if placed on a pan of water, long as you don't routinely forget to unplug the engine block heater - stand close to that heater and you will hear the coolant boiling around the heating element - radiator cap prevents over-pressuring the system

FYI: water vapor and steam are not just as heavy as water, but liquid water is, eh

Lacquer thinner and MEK depends on the formulation - company I worked for required MEK s.g. to be greater than 1.0 for the ratio to be correct - of what, I don't remember

And, my bad on the alcohol spec grav - I had something in mind, but don't remember what it was....so, sue me, eh............

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

Lacquer thinner and MEK depends on the formulation - company I worked for required MEK s.g. to be greater than 1.0 for the ratio to be correct - of what, I don't remember
Please, I am an organic chemist. MEK is Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Single molecule, specific gravity less than 1.0. All lacquer thinners, ketones, etc have a specific gravity less than 1.0 unless they contain a solvent that is halogenated like methylene chloride, Carbon- Tet, PCBTF, etc.

I understand what you are trying to say in your comments above just that your terminology is poor.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:14 am

If I lived in a colder climate, I would invest in a diesel heater. No plugging in and it works anywhere. They also have a cab heat option. Nothing like getting into a pre-warmed vehicle. If i had the extra cash and time, I would invest in one anyway.

I have seen one post of a guy that has one on a CRD. I Don't know if it was here or on the CRD Facebook page.

I do wonder if there is some type of recirculating heater that could be used on transmissions.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:39 pm

joelukex4 wrote:

Lacquer thinner and MEK depends on the formulation - company I worked for required MEK s.g. to be greater than 1.0 for the ratio to be correct - of what, I don't remember
Please, I am an organic chemist. MEK is Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Single molecule, specific gravity less than 1.0. All lacquer thinners, ketones, etc have a specific gravity less than 1.0 unless they contain a solvent that is halogenated like methylene chloride, Carbon- Tet, PCBTF, etc. Understood - but, whatever the mix in the MEK, if the spec grav was lower than 1.0, it was rejected as being non-functional in one of our manufacturing processes
Also, we used some form of lacquer-thinner for local cleaning of the soldered circuit board assemblies - wasn't quite as cancer-causing as carbon-tet, but was eventually out-lawed by EPA because of difficulty in disposal of any un-evaporated liquids, and it was tested for spec grav of not greater than 1.0

However, as none of those liquids are locally-available in ur friendly hardware store, I'm guessing I should have excluded them from the list - so, in the imortal words of Emily Latella on SNL..........never mind

I understand what you are trying to say in your comments above just that your terminology is poor.
Agreed - seems as tho my ghost-writer has expired in my old age

Also, I do appreciate your input - I like my posted "facts" to be factual..............

Pad style heater on the Transmission pan?

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