LOST JEEPS :: View topic - TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions

Call me nuts doing them all at once...anyway.

1) Does new valve cover gasket need RTV or any kind of sealer?
2) removed FCV, EGR, EGR cooler, etc. I want to plug the water supply coming out of the head and plug the line going into the Y at the thermostat area. But, is it okay to plug or should I connect the two making a loop minus all the crap that was associated with the EGR coolant circuit? I am already Running SEGR by the way.

Will do ARP studs next. Getting that valve cover off is a pain. Hope I can get this thing back together and running. Found one rocker separated from the lifter....yikes...sure hope that happened during valve cover removal. Snapped it back together so hope all is well.

Geordi, would you PM me with a cell phone number if I get stuck? I watched you do User113's when Larry stopped by last year in VA.

TB and WP is easy compared to ARP and total EGR, etc removal.

Thanks...more later.

1. if your cam surfaces are good and all the rocker rollers are solid (roll smoothly and have no play) and while it's off you do a bit of cleaning of the intake portion(s) of the valve cover then I see no reason to replace rockers/lifters. They are not a "maintenance" item so they should pretty much run forever but for a) a timing issue or b) too much soot in the oil causing roller failure but you have an SEGR so that should not be an issue same as if you had a GDE tune.
2. IIRC coolant flow is out of the block fitting; to the EGR cooler; and back to the engine via the metal line over the front of the engine. You can a) reroute the flow from the block fitting directly to the metal line (avoid hose kinks) and keep the flow or b) pull the block fitting and plug the hole (short metric bolt and copper washer) and eliminate the metal line with any necessary fittings to connect the hose(s) at the other end. Members have done both with no problems being mentioned.

If my EGR cooler area ever springs a leak I'll probably do the total removal option.

I stand educated in which case the OP might want be VERY carefully check rocker rollers for wear/play and at minimum consider replacing the SEGR with a GDE tune.

You will find yourself with a MUCH easier job at restarting the engine if you spin the fuel pump a bunch before putting the timing belt on. Torque the other 3 injector lines, but leave the #4 just a bit loose at the rail.

The preferred method I use is a socket and drill attachment to spin the pump clockwise at some decent speed, until fuel is coming out the #4 injector line. Then lock everything up, and install the belt. You should be able to start it then with a minimum of fuss.

After you spin the fuel injection pump to fill the rail, rotate it around so the timing mark lines up with the raised mark on the inner timing cover, just below the bolt at 8 o'clock. This sets the pump in time with the cams which are pinned (right?) and then everything has proper time.

Check, recheck, check it again to ensure everything stays in time as you are reassembling.

geordi wrote:

Okay...putting the valve cover back on is a pain in the rear!!!! It took me forever to avoid any of the rockers even after sticking them down with a little grease. I sure hope I got a clear install.

Was installing the fuel system and broke the plastic tip where the injector return fuel line goes into the "block"/manifold to go back to the tank. It is a little plastic block that returns the fuel pump, fuel rail, and injector fuel to the tank. Anyway. the stealership does not have it and has to order it but can get it online for a third the price. Meanwhile I am trying to JB weld the parts to get me by as want to get this job done and behind me.

Will try to start without tuning the fuel pump by hand or with a drill. I assume others have restarted with the starter alone and not used any form of filling the rail by turning the pump manually?

Doing all four jobs at once is not for the faint of heart but at this point I can say that the TB change alone is not a big deal. The ARP studs are a larger job. The WEEKS Kit is not that bad and I highly recommend getting rid of all the components. I am using a piece of half inch copper pipe with a cap soldered on to plug the line at the block and the thermostat. But have logs of room now to install a bypass oil filter system...woohoo!!

More later...hope I can get this thing running and that none of the rockers are off.

taroo wrote:

geordi wrote:

I hope you used some alignment bolts when you put that intake on, if not you may have problems?

I did not use alignment bolts and I do have a problem. When I was turning the crank to realign the TB tensioner I hit a hard stop. A HARD STOP! I am at a loss though I did have a 8mm socket go missing and am afraid it is in the intake at a valve....

I have no choice now but to pull the valve cover and now the head off to find out why I am hitting a hard stop and see if my missing 8mm socket is the cause.

Does anyone no of another reason for a hard stop if it is not my 8mm socket?

Lastly, where do I get the alignment bolts for the intake?

Author:	taroo [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:23 am ]
Post subject:	TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
Call me nuts doing them all at once...anyway. 1) Does new valve cover gasket need RTV or any kind of sealer? 2) removed FCV, EGR, EGR cooler, etc. I want to plug the water supply coming out of the head and plug the line going into the Y at the thermostat area. But, is it okay to plug or should I connect the two making a loop minus all the crap that was associated with the EGR coolant circuit? I am already Running SEGR by the way. Will do ARP studs next. Getting that valve cover off is a pain. Hope I can get this thing back together and running. Found one rocker separated from the lifter....yikes...sure hope that happened during valve cover removal. Snapped it back together so hope all is well. Geordi, would you PM me with a cell phone number if I get stuck? I watched you do User113's when Larry stopped by last year in VA. TB and WP is easy compared to ARP and total EGR, etc removal. Thanks...more later.

Author:	flman [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
taroo wrote: Call me nuts doing them all at once...anyway. 1) Does new valve cover gasket need RTV or any kind of sealer? 2) removed FCV, EGR, EGR cooler, etc. I want to plug the water supply coming out of the head and plug the line going into the Y at the thermostat area. But, is it okay to plug or should I connect the two making a loop minus all the crap that was associated with the EGR coolant circuit? I am already Running SEGR by the way. Will do ARP studs next. Getting that valve cover off is a pain. Hope I can get this thing back together and running. Found one rocker separated from the lifter....yikes...sure hope that happened during valve cover removal. Snapped it back together so hope all is well. Geordi, would you PM me with a cell phone number if I get stuck? I watched you do User113's when Larry stopped by last year in VA. TB and WP is easy compared to ARP and total EGR, etc removal. Thanks...more later. Do not seal that gasket, you will have a bigger mess with the rockers if it is glued on, mine got stuck to the valve cover and separted a couple of lifter/rockers. In my Sport I plugged the head, in the LTD I left everything intact. Did not notice improvement between the 2 in any aspect.

Author:	taroo [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
Thanks....yeah...my thought is to plug the lines. Geordi mentioned it may reduce cooling but the flow is so little probably not an issue. Okay all...not to get scientific. But, now that I am open (valve cover off for ARP) with 85k miles, are my lifters and rockers good for another 100k miles? Or, will they not go 80k + 100k (180k total) without issue? Did not buy any ( assumed they are good forever?) so will have to keep things open until idparts opens and can deliver or I can just close it up. Thoughts? By the way...this board is fantastic! Makes owning the CRD a different experience.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
My 1. if your cam surfaces are good and all the rocker rollers are solid (roll smoothly and have no play) and while it's off you do a bit of cleaning of the intake portion(s) of the valve cover then I see no reason to replace rockers/lifters. They are not a "maintenance" item so they should pretty much run forever but for a) a timing issue or b) too much soot in the oil causing roller failure but you have an SEGR so that should not be an issue same as if you had a GDE tune. 2. IIRC coolant flow is out of the block fitting; to the EGR cooler; and back to the engine via the metal line over the front of the engine. You can a) reroute the flow from the block fitting directly to the metal line (avoid hose kinks) and keep the flow or b) pull the block fitting and plug the hole (short metric bolt and copper washer) and eliminate the metal line with any necessary fittings to connect the hose(s) at the other end. Members have done both with no problems being mentioned. If my EGR cooler area ever springs a leak I'll probably do the total removal option.

Author:	geordi [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
Since you are doing the studs, PLEASE record the data for the research project sticky thread. Rockers are a 'they are good until they aren't good' kind of part. I don't know of any specific mileage that I would suggest replacing them, or any members that have had X failures at Y mileage that I could point to for you. If they all look and feel good, then keep running them. If they don't, then at least one or more may need to be replaced. I'm not a fan of reducing the water flow through the engine, at least when retaining that loop is so easy as just a soft rubber hose from point A to point B across the engine. However, some people have plugged it and not had problems, so it is up to you. I think that loop is part of the heater core and thermostat bypass, so it would help in the warmup process if it was still there. FLman, yours is plugged, right? Any change in the warmup speed?

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Author:	flman [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
There is absolutley no difference in warmup, beside the viscous heater is first in line to the heat core any ways. Cant see how a few ounces of fluid is got to be noticable?

Author:	GreenDieselEngineering [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
papaindigo wrote: My 1. if your cam surfaces are good and all the rocker rollers are solid (roll smoothly and have no play) and while it's off you do a bit of cleaning of the intake portion(s) of the valve cover then I see no reason to replace rockers/lifters. They are not a "maintenance" item so they should pretty much run forever but for a) a timing issue or b) too much soot in the oil causing roller failure but you have an SEGR so that should not be an issue same as if you had a GDE tune. 2. IIRC coolant flow is out of the block fitting; to the EGR cooler; and back to the engine via the metal line over the front of the engine. You can a) reroute the flow from the block fitting directly to the metal line (avoid hose kinks) and keep the flow or b) pull the block fitting and plug the hole (short metric bolt and copper washer) and eliminate the metal line with any necessary fittings to connect the hose(s) at the other end. Members have done both with no problems being mentioned. If my EGR cooler area ever springs a leak I'll probably do the total removal option. The SEGR is not the same as a GDE tune as it relates to the soot in the oil. Turning off the EGR does not do all that much for the soot formation in the oil and I would still expect rocker arm wear over time. The GDE tunes change the combustion parameters so less soot is formed and much less soot makes it past the rings into the oil. Not to beat a dead horse, but there is nothing better for the VM engine longevity than a Green Diesel tune.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
I stand educated in which case the OP might want be VERY carefully check rocker rollers for wear/play and at minimum consider replacing the SEGR with a GDE tune.

Author:	taroo [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
papaindigo wrote: I stand educated in which case the OP might want be VERY carefully check rocker rollers for wear/play and at minimum consider replacing the SEGR with a GDE tune. Thanks all. Will plug the water supply out of the head to the EGR cooler. Lots of room now with all that stuff gone. Will do GDE tune after I get back on track as I want as little soot as possible for longevity. Thanks GDE a for the clarification. Will run the existing lifters and rockers as I change oil all every 4k miles, use SEGR, and need to get my daily driver back. If I had ready access to a full set I would drop them in. Fingers crossed. If not Christmas IDparts could overnight but... Lastly, once I install the fuel rail and injectors, any special actions before starting? Otherwise I guess I just turn over after TB is on before I install rest of the items.

Author:	geordi [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
You will find yourself with a MUCH easier job at restarting the engine if you spin the fuel pump a bunch before putting the timing belt on. Torque the other 3 injector lines, but leave the #4 just a bit loose at the rail. The preferred method I use is a socket and drill attachment to spin the pump clockwise at some decent speed, until fuel is coming out the #4 injector line. Then lock everything up, and install the belt. You should be able to start it then with a minimum of fuss.

Author:	taroo [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
geordi wrote: You will find yourself with a MUCH easier job at restarting the engine if you spin the fuel pump a bunch before putting the timing belt on. Torque the other 3 injector lines, but leave the #4 just a bit loose at the rail. The preferred method I use is a socket and drill attachment to spin the pump clockwise at some decent speed, until fuel is coming out the #4 injector line. Then lock everything up, and install the belt. You should be able to start it then with a minimum of fuss. Isn't the fuel pump timed? So, as long as I put it back to the same place where I have it marked it will be fine? Hmm..will have to see how to get a drill in there....

Author:	papaindigo [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
Lots of debate on whether or not the fuel pump is timed or if its timing matters but if you marked it and the adjacent cover so you can put it back where it was before you will be fine. FYI getting it back where it was may require a bit of fiddling as it tends to want to get off one tooth as the belt goes on and gets tensioned. Be careful not to mix-up the #4 injector wiring plug with an identical sensor plug in the same area. Reversing them = a no start.

Author:	flman [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
I put Blue painters tape on my Sport 1 2 3 4 injector wires and marked them with a sharpie, as the stickers were falling off. Also put the Sasquatch inake fitting on the valve cover when you have it off the engine makes in a lot easier, I have done it both ways.

Author:	geordi [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
After you spin the fuel injection pump to fill the rail, rotate it around so the timing mark lines up with the raised mark on the inner timing cover, just below the bolt at 8 o'clock. This sets the pump in time with the cams which are pinned (right?) and then everything has proper time. Check, recheck, check it again to ensure everything stays in time as you are reassembling.

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Author:	taroo [ Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
geordi wrote: After you spin the fuel injection pump to fill the rail, rotate it around so the timing mark lines up with the raised mark on the inner timing cover, just below the bolt at 8 o'clock. This sets the pump in time with the cams which are pinned (right?) and then everything has proper time. Check, recheck, check it again to ensure everything stays in time as you are reassembling. Okay...putting the valve cover back on is a pain in the rear!!!! It took me forever to avoid any of the rockers even after sticking them down with a little grease. I sure hope I got a clear install. Was installing the fuel system and broke the plastic tip where the injector return fuel line goes into the "block"/manifold to go back to the tank. It is a little plastic block that returns the fuel pump, fuel rail, and injector fuel to the tank. Anyway. the stealership does not have it and has to order it but can get it online for a third the price. Meanwhile I am trying to JB weld the parts to get me by as want to get this job done and behind me. Will try to start without tuning the fuel pump by hand or with a drill. I assume others have restarted with the starter alone and not used any form of filling the rail by turning the pump manually? Doing all four jobs at once is not for the faint of heart but at this point I can say that the TB change alone is not a big deal. The ARP studs are a larger job. The WEEKS Kit is not that bad and I highly recommend getting rid of all the components. I am using a piece of half inch copper pipe with a cap soldered on to plug the line at the block and the thermostat. But have logs of room now to install a bypass oil filter system...woohoo!! More later...hope I can get this thing running and that none of the rockers are off.

Author:	papaindigo [ Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
You can replace that fuel return block with a brass one per an old email to me from fxjr73. Here's that photo of my brass return block. I did run into one issue with this. The largest diameter fuel line had a plastic inner lining which was molded to the fuel return outlet/inlet. I couldn't pull it off, so I had to bend and break the lining. I clamped the remnant of the hose tightly around the brass outlet/inlet, but I'm going to replace that fuel line. In fact, I may just replace all of them.

Author:	flman [ Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
taroo wrote: geordi wrote: After you spin the fuel injection pump to fill the rail, rotate it around so the timing mark lines up with the raised mark on the inner timing cover, just below the bolt at 8 o'clock. This sets the pump in time with the cams which are pinned (right?) and then everything has proper time. Check, recheck, check it again to ensure everything stays in time as you are reassembling. Okay...putting the valve cover back on is a pain in the rear!!!! It took me forever to avoid any of the rockers even after sticking them down with a little grease. I sure hope I got a clear install. Was installing the fuel system and broke the plastic tip where the injector return fuel line goes into the "block"/manifold to go back to the tank. It is a little plastic block that returns the fuel pump, fuel rail, and injector fuel to the tank. Anyway. the stealership does not have it and has to order it but can get it online for a third the price. Meanwhile I am trying to JB weld the parts to get me by as want to get this job done and behind me. Will try to start without tuning the fuel pump by hand or with a drill. I assume others have restarted with the starter alone and not used any form of filling the rail by turning the pump manually? Doing all four jobs at once is not for the faint of heart but at this point I can say that the TB change alone is not a big deal. The ARP studs are a larger job. The WEEKS Kit is not that bad and I highly recommend getting rid of all the components. I am using a piece of half inch copper pipe with a cap soldered on to plug the line at the block and the thermostat. But have logs of room now to install a bypass oil filter system...woohoo!! More later...hope I can get this thing running and that none of the rockers are off. I hope you used some alignment bolts when you put that intake on, if not you may have problems?

Author:	taroo [ Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
flman wrote: taroo wrote: geordi wrote: After you spin the fuel injection pump to fill the rail, rotate it around so the timing mark lines up with the raised mark on the inner timing cover, just below the bolt at 8 o'clock. This sets the pump in time with the cams which are pinned (right?) and then everything has proper time. Check, recheck, check it again to ensure everything stays in time as you are reassembling. Okay...putting the valve cover back on is a pain in the rear!!!! It took me forever to avoid any of the rockers even after sticking them down with a little grease. I sure hope I got a clear install. Was installing the fuel system and broke the plastic tip where the injector return fuel line goes into the "block"/manifold to go back to the tank. It is a little plastic block that returns the fuel pump, fuel rail, and injector fuel to the tank. Anyway. the stealership does not have it and has to order it but can get it online for a third the price. Meanwhile I am trying to JB weld the parts to get me by as want to get this job done and behind me. Will try to start without tuning the fuel pump by hand or with a drill. I assume others have restarted with the starter alone and not used any form of filling the rail by turning the pump manually? Doing all four jobs at once is not for the faint of heart but at this point I can say that the TB change alone is not a big deal. The ARP studs are a larger job. The WEEKS Kit is not that bad and I highly recommend getting rid of all the components. I am using a piece of half inch copper pipe with a cap soldered on to plug the line at the block and the thermostat. But have logs of room now to install a bypass oil filter system...woohoo!! More later...hope I can get this thing running and that none of the rockers are off. I hope you used some alignment bolts when you put that intake on, if not you may have problems? I did not use alignment bolts and I do have a problem. When I was turning the crank to realign the TB tensioner I hit a hard stop. A HARD STOP! I am at a loss though I did have a 8mm socket go missing and am afraid it is in the intake at a valve.... I have no choice now but to pull the valve cover and now the head off to find out why I am hitting a hard stop and see if my missing 8mm socket is the cause. Does anyone no of another reason for a hard stop if it is not my 8mm socket? Lastly, where do I get the alignment bolts for the intake?

Author:	flman [ Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
taroo wrote: I did not use alignment bolts and I do have a problem. When I was turning the crank to realign the TB tensioner I hit a hard stop. A HARD STOP! I am at a loss though I did have a 8mm socket go missing and am afraid it is in the intake at a valve.... I have no choice now but to pull the valve cover and now the head off to find out why I am hitting a hard stop and see if my missing 8mm socket is the cause. Does anyone no of another reason for a hard stop if it is not my 8mm socket? Lastly, where do I get the alignment bolts for the intake? That is why I asked about alignment bolts, yes it is painful, but I think you nocked a rocker out of place and that is your bind, so you will have to pull in back apart. I have the VM alignment pins for the intake. You may just have the timing off, but if you can get the crank locked and see if you can turn the cams it would be a good test. But I am betting 10 to 1 you knocked a rocker out of place. All you need is 2 bolts the same size as the ones that bolt on the intake and cut the hex off so you can put the in the center for alignment.

Author:	flman [ Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB, WP, ARP, Weeks simultaneously-Questions
BTW that turning the pump by hand sounds like a good idea especially with no helper, but I just leave inmector #1 loose, carnk it over till I get fuel, tighten it, and any air is quickly taken out of the rail by the remaining injectors and the returns.