help new crd owner

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

I'm a new CRD owner.I inherited this Jeep from my daughter who now drives a Fiat 500. Question I have is that I have replaced the turbo the timing belt the EGR valve when she bought this Jeep it had a hundred and forty thousand miles on it I don't know anything about its previous history the question I have is I'm blowing black smoke and no one seems to be able to fix it. Is there anybody in the North Dallas area that is a member of this board that I could talk to that knows more about a diesel than me. I've never owned one before but I've got to be able to make it run there still a 8 thousand dollars owed against it. Any help you can give me I would greatly appreciate it thank you.

What I have done. I disconnected the MAF to knock out the EGR.
Clean the MAP.
Bought a new fuel filter haven't in stalled it yet.
Ordered new intercooler hoses haven't arrived yet.
Bought and had installed a new tubro, egr, timing belt, water pump.

toby · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:05 am

It most likely needs rocker arms especially at that mileage, I just finished a jeep with 104,000 miles that had 2 broken rockers and 10 well worn ones. Was blowing tons of black smoke and low on power.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:42 am

Welcome to the forum
Black smoke can be clogged air filter, check that first, or no turbo action

Open the hood, crank it up, pull the vac hose off the turbo diaphragm
- turbo actuator rod should drop
- if hose has vacuum in it, putting it back on the diaphragm should pull the actuator rod up
- check hose for cracks\leaks if no vacuum, then vacuum solenoid
- if no vacuum in hose from solenoid, check vacuum in hose supplying the solenoid

Read the Noob guide at the top of this section for much information with pictures

There you will also find a link for downloading the Factory Service Manual in PDF form

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Vacuum is good checked it from the guide. New air filter also. Man I really didn't want to here the bad rocker arm isseu. Money I do not have.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:07 am

Do the MAF check at idle. If the value is much below 18, you probably need rockers.

DOC

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:35 pm

Sabertooth wrote:

Vacuum is good checked it from the guide. New air filter also. Man I really didn't want to here the bad rocker arm isseu. Money I do not have.

Does the vacuum actuator move the link when vacuum is removed and applied, engine running?

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

yes the vacuum actuator works a idle. Now do you want me to plug the MAF back in and test the value of the vacuum actuator? What is the value of 18 that I'm looking for? I just have a hard time believing that a diesel that is supposed to be so tough need rockers at a hundred and forty thousand. I have a Dodge truck that has a 360 gas engine in it that has a hundred and eighty thousand miles on it and I've never had to do anything to it.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:54 pm

Ok - appears the vacuum system is functioning to the new turbo - vac applied = max BOOST, so under this condition the turbo should quickly spool-up off-idle and there should be no black smoke - ECM controls the solenoid to requlate max BOOST

Is the CEL Check Engine Lite on?

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Yes the CEL came on about a day after my daughter bought it. I had a check done at the dealer they told me that the turbo, egr, and MAP along with the timing belt needed to be replaced. So like an idiot I had it all done. CEL was off for about a day took it back. Long story short they couldn't tell me why the CEL kept coming on. They just kept throwing parts at it I got tired of spending money on it with no results. I still haven't changed the inter cooler hoses or the fuel filter.
Barring a broken timing belt some time in the past. I just don't see how it could be rockers at only 140 thousand miles. That would be a pain to replace rockers every 100 thousand miles as routine maintenance.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Yes the CEL came on about a day after my daughter bought it. I had a check done at the dealer they told me that the turbo, egr, and MAP along with the timing belt needed to be replaced. So like an idiot I had it all done. CEL was off for about a day took it back. Long story short they couldn't tell me why the CEL kept coming on. They just kept throwing parts at it I got tired of spending money on it with no results. I still haven't changed the inter cooler hoses or the fuel filter.
Barring a broken timing belt some time in the past. I just don't see how it could be rockers at only 140 thousand miles. That would be a pain to replace rockers every 100 thousand miles as routine maintenance.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:42 pm

One CEL is for turbo BOOST levels - could be your MAP (BOOST) sensor is defective, resulting in ECM cutting BOOST at all levels = black smoke - needs a scantool to positively verify DTC's, but this is most likely culprit, based on your tests - defective BOOST-control solenoid, which is now applying vacuum, would result in max BOOST at all rpm = no black smoke

KJ BOSCH MAP sensor # 0 281 002 845 - GM part # 55206797 goes for ~$30. on eBay, shipped - the GM item is same as the DCJ item, just ~$150 cheaper

If you have the DCJ service report, post all the repair items they 'threw' at the KJ (known as the 'repair by shotgun' method) - will make long-distance diagnosis simpler

flman · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:45 pm

Sabertooth wrote:

yes the vacuum actuator works a idle. Now do you want me to plug the MAF back in and test the value of the vacuum actuator? What is the value of 18 that I'm looking for? I just have a hard time believing that a diesel that is supposed to be so tough need rockers at a hundred and forty thousand. I have a Dodge truck that has a 360 gas engine in it that has a hundred and eighty thousand miles on it and I've never had to do anything to it.

I had movement when mine was frozen, be sure you are getting a full 1/2" of movement, the linkage will move somewhat even if the lever is frozen.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

okay here's the latest update. My dad and I went out and looked at the G. Started as I run it up to about 3000 rpms both the intercooler hose is swelled really really tight so would that mean that the F CV valve is stuck and I need to disable it it seemed to like the air was building in the intercooler system with no place to go

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:15 pm

I don't offhand know how tight that hose would be but it's easy enough to disable the FCV. Pull the hose and as I understand it the "flapper" is held in place by just 2 small screws; remove them; remove flapper; reattach hose and see if that improves things.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Is that safe for the engine?

dirtmover · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:23 pm

Sabertooth wrote:

Is that safe for the engine?

Oh, good question

:POPCORN:

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:43 pm

Sabertooth wrote:

Is that safe for the engine?

Yes - FCV is used to enable EGR under BOOST conditions, also to prevent death-rattle as the li'l puffer shuts down, it may be stuck partially closed, which also produces black smoke

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Don't know what happen to my post so I'll try again.First off thank you for your patience. The MAP is new I replaced it when the dealership said it was bad along with a turbo egr valve timing belt and water pump. I am were I don't trust any "diesel mechanic". This weekend I'll pull the hoses and look at the FCV. Now is it supposed to be all the way open or half way? Also my farther who has been an over the road trucker his whole life said that the jeep has power so the " low or no power and heavy black smoke" does apply here. Got power and black smoke.
Also are there any other signs of a bad rocker arm or bad injector besides black smoke? I tell you I'm at my wits end with this thing. If it was not for the fact that it would destroy my daughters fledgling credit I'd let the bank take it. I've already put close to 3 grand in it and it seem I've gotten nowhere.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:12 am

No prob - here's their tho'ts behind the parts replacement

- Timing belt and water pump - replaced due to 140kmi - water pump is inside timing case driven by timing belt, so later replacement would have required tearing into the timing case again - belt and pump should be replaced simutaneously

- EGR - can stick open allowing exhaust gasses to dilute intake air charge, resulting in black smoke

- MAP - again, faulty MAP output can cause less BOOST than required, resulting in black smoke

- Turbo - dunno on that one, tho they do fail eventually, usually from bearing deterioration, resulting in black smoke - 140kmi?? maybe, maybe not

FCV valve was dealer-replaced on my KJ four (count'em: 4) times in the year prior to my acquisition, likely because dealer techs did not know it's real function

However:
- FCV is commanded fully open by ECM at START
- partially closed to effect EGR when intake manifold is under BOOST pressure
- fully closed at shutdown to prevent Diesel death-shake, which usually upsets female passengers

FCV can fail in any position between closed to open
- butterfly plate can be seen when hose between FCV and CAC Charge-Air-Cooler is removed
- IIRC, ECM closes valve for shutdown, fully opens it after crankshaft stops rotating
- that's the whirring sound you should hear as you're removing the keys to exit the vehicle
- may also cycle it closed\open during wait-to-start to verify function

Good idea to take a look at the valve-plate - partially open (partially closed, for the half-empty\half full crowd) can cause black smoke,
and ECM has no control after valve gear-train sticks
- if it's partially closed, force it to allow two-screw removal (plastic gears), force it back horizontal so the plate can be pulled out
- make sure both screws are in sight out of engine compartment B4 reinstalling BOOST hose - Diesel engine is not as forgiving
as gasoline engine with alternate fuels such as small screws and washers

Stuck FCV will be one of the previously logged DTC's

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:33 pm

Sabertooth wrote:

Is that safe for the engine?

Perfectly safe and defeats EGR dumping into intake.

I removed the plate (2 screws) out of the FCV, capped the EGR and ran this way for almost a year till Weeks came out with the FCV elbow elimination kit which I purchased and installed. This allowed me to remove the FCV and EGR completely along with all associated plumbing, hoses, etc... :BANANA:

Could tell absolutely no difference on shutdown with or without the plate in FCV..... :roll:

help new crd owner

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