LOST JEEPS :: View topic - About ready to pull the trigger on a new 05, questions.....

i'm almost there but am a tad nervous about all this egr and tsb talk. can anyone put my mind at ease. it seems my local dealer doesn't know much about the crd's seeing as though he didn't know he had one in the lot. i drove it and loved it but....thanks for helping a newbie out.

The stuff you hear about problems is a minority of the owners out there.
Look at the posts, they are about problems or ways of modifying the rigs. You don't see many exalting the virtues of a rig that just purrs along with no problems.
I appear to have such a rig, the EGR code came up while test driving the rig and they put a new one in before I recieved it, my rig hasn't overheated in the summer with or without a load, the tranny doesn't stutter, and the tranny hasn't sent me overheating signal of any kind, on or off the road, no matter the load or hill in overdrive.
The diesel truck forums have always also had the same mix, they are not all problem free either, and they were a real bear in their early years. We have it easy compared to those first owners.

sticker said 26K and his first number is 22K. i haven't even started to negotiate. you think i can get this under 20K? WOW1

You most not tow things much, if you did there is no comparison, the 3.7 has the same rated load, but it doesn't pull like the CRD. I've pulled my jetsled (heavy 3/16 inch walled shallow water aluminum boat), full size camp trailers, and a two horse trailer loaded with Tenessee Walkers and gear with zero problems. Diesels are workhorses, I bought it to do just that and offroading, otherwise I would have bought a high MPG car. If our Subarus were beefed up like yours are to tow, I may have bought one of those as I didn't expect having to tow a horse trailer.

spoonplugger1 wrote:

The inherent complexity of the diesel (turbo etc) also makes it less of a long term reliable proposition when compared to a pretty unsophisticated 6 cylinder petrol engine in the other KJ. I would buy a petrol, 6 speed manual probably next time.

Wilmo wrote:

spoonplugger1 wrote:

This is where you are wrong. One of the key reasons people buy turbo diesel vehicles is because they are known to be MORE reliable and last twice as long before needing major engine work done to them. There are diesel pickup trucks running around here with anywhere from 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles on them and only minor repairs done to the engines. Show me gasoline engines that will do that without being completely worn out with no compression. Turbo diesels last forever, get great mileage, tow better, and hold their resale value longer.

sticker said 26K and his first number is 22K. i haven't even started to negotiate. you think i can get this under 20K? WOW1

When purchasing, look at the original invoice for someting like "HB." It's on the left side and is the Dealer Hold Back. It will have a number next to it. That # is the $$$ amount the dealer can play with. Mine was just about a grand. I got ALL of that back. I wouldn't let the dealer keep it. But then, I paid about full price as I bought when the CRD was still new, July of 05.

Author:	qdog [ Mon May 01, 2006 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:	About ready to pull the trigger on a new 05, questions.....
i'm almost there but am a tad nervous about all this egr and tsb talk. can anyone put my mind at ease. it seems my local dealer doesn't know much about the crd's seeing as though he didn't know he had one in the lot. i drove it and loved it but....thanks for helping a newbie out.

Author:	Ripster [ Mon May 01, 2006 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:
Pull the trigger, Pull the trigger, read through the posts here on the first page, you will know the latest flash needed and other minor items. If the dealer is a stand behind you type of dealership you will be fine.

Author:	oldnavy [ Mon May 01, 2006 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: About ready to pull the trigger on a new 05, questions.
qdog wrote: i'm almost there but am a tad nervous about all this egr and tsb talk. can anyone put my mind at ease. it seems my local dealer doesn't know much about the crd's seeing as though he didn't know he had one in the lot. i drove it and loved it but....thanks for helping a newbie out. If you can get a good buy and then find a dealer that has experience with Cummins & MB diesels I would go for the rig. Some of these problems are made more then what they should be due to poor dealer service and a lot of people not used to modern diesels and their quirks and problems.

Author:	Goglio704 [ Mon May 01, 2006 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:
You should get a pretty good deal on an 05. I bought my new 05 less than two months ago and got something like 8,000 off the sticker.

Author:	qdog [ Mon May 01, 2006 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:
sticker said 26K and his first number is 22K. i haven't even started to negotiate. you think i can get this under 20K? WOW1

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Author:	Goglio704 [ Mon May 01, 2006 11:16 pm ]
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Mine stickered a little higher than that, but when it was over it was 8400 less than sticker. I was happy. In case you didn't know, the 05 has the 7/70 warranty. 06 has 3/36. Most significant difference in an 06 is the electronic traction control and side curtain airbag availability if memory serves. Some of this is slipping away now that I'm not shopping anymore. If I had it to do over I might have bought the extended warranty. I don't do that normally, but I'm afraid there are some bugs to be worked out.

Author:	spoonplugger1 [ Tue May 02, 2006 12:05 am ]
Post subject:
The stuff you hear about problems is a minority of the owners out there. Look at the posts, they are about problems or ways of modifying the rigs. You don't see many exalting the virtues of a rig that just purrs along with no problems. I appear to have such a rig, the EGR code came up while test driving the rig and they put a new one in before I recieved it, my rig hasn't overheated in the summer with or without a load, the tranny doesn't stutter, and the tranny hasn't sent me overheating signal of any kind, on or off the road, no matter the load or hill in overdrive. The diesel truck forums have always also had the same mix, they are not all problem free either, and they were a real bear in their early years. We have it easy compared to those first owners.

Author:	Wilmo [ Tue May 02, 2006 12:12 am ]
Post subject:
spoonplugger1 wrote: The stuff you hear about problems is a minority of the owners out there. Look at the posts, they are about problems or ways of modifying the rigs. You don't see many exalting the virtues of a rig that just purrs along with no problems. I appear to have such a rig, the EGR code came up while test driving the rig and they put a new one in before I recieved it, my rig hasn't overheated in the summer with or without a load, the tranny doesn't stutter, and the tranny hasn't sent me overheating signal of any kind, on or off the road, no matter the load or hill in overdrive. The diesel truck forums have always also had the same mix, they are not all problem free either, and they were a real bear in their early years. We have it easy compared to those first owners. yeah but still the Petrol Kj's don't complain about any of these issues......I'd buy Petrol if I had my time again. Less weight, more lift options that work available, more reliability, only downside is the fuel consumption.

Author:	RFCRD [ Tue May 02, 2006 12:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: About ready to pull the trigger on a new 05, questions.
qdog wrote: i'm almost there but am a tad nervous about all this egr and tsb talk. can anyone put my mind at ease. it seems my local dealer doesn't know much about the crd's seeing as though he didn't know he had one in the lot. i drove it and loved it but....thanks for helping a newbie out. Assume this is a near-zero mileage new CRD. In any case I would start to ask some questions. A good one would be "can I meet your CRD tech?" Dealer support is critical to owning this vehicle. If your CRD tech desn't have a clue, you will become dissappointed with your choice.

Author:	Stan Wright [ Tue May 02, 2006 12:50 am ]
Post subject:
qdog wrote: sticker said 26K and his first number is 22K. i haven't even started to negotiate. you think i can get this under 20K? WOW1 I ordered my 2006 and paid $6000 less than sticker (including rebates). I'd like to see you get the leftover 2005 for $20K or less.

Author:	RFCRD [ Tue May 02, 2006 12:55 am ]
Post subject:
qdog wrote: sticker said 26K and his first number is 22K. i haven't even started to negotiate. you think i can get this under 20K? WOW1 Cut to the chase, it's a year old leftover regardless of the motor choice. Wouldn't give over $20K for one of these a year old. Didn't by chance check the build date?

Author:	qdog [ Tue May 02, 2006 12:57 am ]
Post subject:
great info guys, i'll just keep reading. thanks again.

Author:	Wilmo [ Tue May 02, 2006 1:04 am ]
Post subject:
spoonplugger1 wrote: You most not tow things much, if you did there is no comparison, the 3.7 has the same rated load, but it doesn't pull like the CRD. I've pulled my jetsled (heavy 3/16 inch walled shallow water aluminum boat), full size camp trailers, and a two horse trailer loaded with Tenessee Walkers and gear with zero problems. Diesels are workhorses, I bought it to do just that and offroading, otherwise I would have bought a high MPG car. If our Subarus were beefed up like yours are to tow, I may have bought one of those as I didn't expect having to tow a horse trailer. no I don't tow things much - correct. Whilst I appreciate the torque the diesel has, the Petrol ones off-road just as well by all reports, and most people aren't towing with CRD's I dare say. I equate workhorse with reliability - where's the workhorse in having your CRD back in the dealers for a day each time getting things fixed, then putting up with the thought that at any moment your EGR could fail rendering your towing capacity greatly diminished because the car won't run properly. And then the dreaded Tranny Stutter.....I've had the TSB's and mine did it yesterday as I reported on another post.....mildly I must admit and it was the first time I had ever experienced it (I think you have to accelerate flat out then back off at precisely the correct cruising speed where the torque converter locks up for it to do it and I don't drive like that too often). The inherent complexity of the diesel (turbo etc) also makes it less of a long term reliable proposition when compared to a pretty unsophisticated 6 cylinder petrol engine in the other KJ. I would buy a petrol, 6 speed manual probably next time.

Author:	longarm [ Tue May 02, 2006 4:51 am ]
Post subject:
When purchasing, look at the original invoice for someting like "HB." It's on the left side and is the Dealer Hold Back. It will have a number next to it. That # is the $$$ amount the dealer can play with. Mine was just about a grand. I got ALL of that back. I wouldn't let the dealer keep it. But then, I paid about full price as I bought when the CRD was still new, July of 05.

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Author:	LibertyCRD [ Tue May 02, 2006 7:35 am ]
Post subject:
Wilmo wrote: spoonplugger1 wrote: You most not tow things much, if you did there is no comparison, the 3.7 has the same rated load, but it doesn't pull like the CRD. I've pulled my jetsled (heavy 3/16 inch walled shallow water aluminum boat), full size camp trailers, and a two horse trailer loaded with Tenessee Walkers and gear with zero problems. Diesels are workhorses, I bought it to do just that and offroading, otherwise I would have bought a high MPG car. If our Subarus were beefed up like yours are to tow, I may have bought one of those as I didn't expect having to tow a horse trailer. The inherent complexity of the diesel (turbo etc) also makes it less of a long term reliable proposition when compared to a pretty unsophisticated 6 cylinder petrol engine in the other KJ. I would buy a petrol, 6 speed manual probably next time. This is where you are wrong. One of the key reasons people buy turbo diesel vehicles is because they are known to be MORE reliable and last twice as long before needing major engine work done to them. There are diesel pickup trucks running around here with anywhere from 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles on them and only minor repairs done to the engines. Show me gasoline engines that will do that without being completely worn out with no compression. Turbo diesels last forever, get great mileage, tow better, and hold their resale value longer.

Author:	Wilmo [ Tue May 02, 2006 7:45 am ]
Post subject:
LibertyCRD wrote: Wilmo wrote: spoonplugger1 wrote: You most not tow things much, if you did there is no comparison, the 3.7 has the same rated load, but it doesn't pull like the CRD. I've pulled my jetsled (heavy 3/16 inch walled shallow water aluminum boat), full size camp trailers, and a two horse trailer loaded with Tenessee Walkers and gear with zero problems. Diesels are workhorses, I bought it to do just that and offroading, otherwise I would have bought a high MPG car. If our Subarus were beefed up like yours are to tow, I may have bought one of those as I didn't expect having to tow a horse trailer. The inherent complexity of the diesel (turbo etc) also makes it less of a long term reliable proposition when compared to a pretty unsophisticated 6 cylinder petrol engine in the other KJ. I would buy a petrol, 6 speed manual probably next time. This is where you are wrong. One of the key reasons people buy turbo diesel vehicles is because they are known to be MORE reliable and last twice as long before needing major engine work done to them. There are diesel pickup trucks running around here with anywhere from 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles on them and only minor repairs done to the engines. Show me gasoline engines that will do that without being completely worn out with no compression. Turbo diesels last forever, get great mileage, tow better, and hold their resale value longer. I hope you are right - the blocks, pistons etc yes, no questions.....but they also have more bits that fail and need maintenance......turbo/intercooler hoses wear out eventually, turbos do fail - some CRD owners have experienced this, EGR valve, Airflow valve(or whatever it is), turbo boost regulation hoses plug up with oil, so do boost control solenoids. The petrol engine is an inherently simpler design. And if you can get 300 000k's out of a petrol engine that's still pretty good going.

Author:	Guest [ Tue May 02, 2006 7:49 am ]
Post subject:
qdog wrote: sticker said 26K and his first number is 22K. i haven't even started to negotiate. you think i can get this under 20K? WOW1 Left over '05 CRDs have an undeclared rebate from the factory to the dealer of $4500 (maybe even higher now) that started sometime in early 2006. You should be able to negotiate $800-$1200 below invoice, and THEN insist of the $4500 plus the current consumer rebates (I think $2500 right now). When I got mine at the end of September, 2005 I only got $3,700 below sticker, and that was with MAJOR negotiating, fighting, and what not. I did get $1000 more for my trade than any other place, so consider me at at $4,700 discount. Two weeks later, consumer rebates went up another $1500. Now I'm just amazed at how much off people are getting. I could have really used the money for my family and almost feel guilty - like I've taken away something from my kids. But who would have thought there would be this magic and invisible extra $4500? Usually if you wait until the 4th quarter of a year, you get the best deal - but in this one case, for most of us, it was far from the best. I'm happy for those getting such discounts - at least we get more people into diesels that can spread the word how awesome they are!!! Does this undeclared rebate not bother anyone else as much as me? I can't stop feeling like I was robbed at gun point - maybe because at this point in my life with two very small children money is very tight, but seriously, I can't believe Jeep needed to offer the extra $4500 to sell these... If you are not "pulling the trigger" on a new '05 with these savings, your crazy. You will never see a deal this good for the rest of your life on this type of vehicle...

Author:	Vox Fatalis [ Tue May 02, 2006 4:24 pm ]
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Wow, I was thinking I got a good deal on my '05 CRD Limited (22,300) but from what I'm hearing here, I may have gotten screwed over again... darn. On the bright side, I do LIKE the '05. I live in a pretty hilly area, so I only see 21-23MPG on average, but overall it's a great rig. Cant' wait to get the Predator chip next week... I'd go for it if I were you. It's a good rig.

Author:	RFCRD [ Tue May 02, 2006 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:
longarm wrote: When purchasing, look at the original invoice for someting like "HB." It's on the left side and is the Dealer Hold Back. It will have a number next to it. That # is the $$$ amount the dealer can play with. Mine was just about a grand. I got ALL of that back. I wouldn't let the dealer keep it. But then, I paid about full price as I bought when the CRD was still new, July of 05. When I got mine in early September, DC had no incentatives on the CRD. Don't recall the exact sticker, mid $26K range ('05 Sport 22C + sunroof). Gave them "take it or leave it" offer of $22,500 (no trade-in). Took them over 45 minutes and a lot of phone calls to come back with $23K with me having to financing at least $6K with DC for 4 months (a rebate thing) as the best they could do. Still wouldn't give more than $20K, it's over a year old now.