Did it seem to be spring loaded at all? In other words was it trying to open or close on it's own?

_________________
Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k

No. But that part of it could have been broken.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

This thing is drawn as a solenoid in the service manual schematic. I was really expecting it to be a motor, but that is not what the drawing says. The drawing doesn't show any position feedback for it either. It has just three wires and one of those is a ground. A solenoid which can't achieve full stroke because of a mechanical bind can buzz, chatter, or hum. If it runs long enough like that it will usually get hot and fail. This can be accompanied by some deformation if the heat gets bad enough. That might explain the roughness if it didn't seem to be in the butterfly pivot points. Just speculation at this point, but it helps the thought process to get it typed out.

_________________
Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k

Sounds reasonable to me.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Almost exact same mileage on mine, and same duty cycle, 20 miles each way to work. 1/2 at 45 mph, 1/2 at 55 mph, secondary roads. Keep it in OD lockout in the 45 mph section to keep the engine up around 2 grand, then keep it around 55 mph to stay in 4th and around 1800 rpm. Staying at 55 in the one section lets me maintain a constant speed, given the curves and terrain, instead of being on and off the throttle every 1/2 mile. Ended up getting 480 miles before the low fuel light came on, on the last tank, using this method.

No EGR related problems yet.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

I've had the check engine light on now for a week or so. Last week they replaced what they called the EGR valve. The light went on again before I left the dealership. However, not having time to wait I had to leave and return this week. They installed what they referred to as a "by-pass valve," which is part# 5142799AA. This did not fix the problem. The light is still on. They claim that I have fuel contamination based upon looking at what came out of the filter and tank. The old "by-pass valve" did have a lot of soot in it. I don't think that I have contaminated fuel. I'm not sure what it is supposed to look like, but I guess I'll have to go to my station and put some in a jar. I have a Biodiesel sticker on the rear window which they seem to have jumped on even though I explained that I have run a couple of tanks of B20 but not since December at latest. I also explained that the car ships with B5 from the factory which surprised them. I feel like I might be dealing with ignorance and a desire to not honor the warranty.

Thanks for the part number. Based on most of the threads here, I would say you might as well look around for a different dealer. Best results seem to be with those who sell Dodge PU also. More diesel experience that way. Good luck.

_________________
Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k

Thanks for this thread.
Months ago retmil46 remarked about the humming behind the dash on his friends Austin, Tx crd preceding egr failure. I had just experienced the hum a few times. With that, without a cel, Grubbs Jeep replaced my egr. When I cleaned my hoses of the oil, I also mentioned that I cleaned this butterfly intake valve with simple green and mentioned I wished I had some spray cleaner handy(usually did). I believe the diesel pros here said that VW's had intake cleaning at higher mileages because of ccv issue. I wish I had been more observant when I cleaned the butterfly valve. The VM Motori website does indeed call this the "Intake Throttle Valve". Once a few weeks back, I heard the hum for ever a small moment.

At some point I want to get my hands on a bad one of these and dissect it. These parts go by so many names that I wanted to track them by part number. So far the butterfly valve by whatever name seems to be the more commonly replaced part, but it doesn't always fix the problem. Keep the info coming folks, I do appreciate it. Again, if anybody has one of these fail out of warranty, keep the bad part and I'll buy it from you, dissect it, and post results.

_________________
Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k

They are currently required to turn them back in and return to D/C for whatever reason. I suspect the Flow Control Valve gets gummed up enough and the solenoid burns out. But then it could have been just a bunch of poor quality valves that they got from vender.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Once you go out of warranty though the part belongs to the vehicle owner unless the dealer is willing to pay for it by refunding a core charge. At least I think that is right. I'd say there are a few CRD Jeeps that are out of warranty or getting close. Some people run up some miles in a hurry. Sales reps and the like especially.

_________________
Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k

Some things I have been wondering: Could the EGR be cleaned in place without draining down the cooling system? Remove the EGR tubes from both ends and blast with carb cleaner? Can the valve be checked by working back & forth by disconnecting from the computer and applying 12V with a jumper wire?

_________________
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

On my friends CRD, the buzzing/hum was loud enough you could hear it several feet away from the vehicle, and continued for several minutes after the vehicle was shut off. After that was when everything broke loose and it started throwing codes right and left and running like crap. They replaced both the EGR valve and the Intake Throttle valve, and it still ran like crap and threw codes.

He took it back in today, armed with all the TSB's and info I'd sent him. they got 3 codes off of it - P 0299, P 1001, P 0093. They basically said the seals in his turbo had went south, ordered a new turbo and he takes it back in next week to get it replaced. They told him the turbo going bad was the reason for all the oil in his intake system. Both of us kinda had that "Yeah, rrriiiiggghhhhttt!" attitude in our voices when discussing this. They also told him the turbo going bad was the reason for his tranny stutter. Neither one of us could fathom that one. And they still had no idea what to do about removing the oil from his intercooler.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Would definately like to see the exhaust side of that turbo when it comes out. If it's gumming-up and not spooling quick enough, could cause some shudder but would also be accompanied by black exhaust smoke. Are they running a CCV filter? Dealer took one look at the clear/see-through hoses on mine, shut them up in a hurry. This is starting to look like the progerssive self-destruction I see on the transit buses.

_________________
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

Yup, someone needs to find a real diesel tech. VW owners saw a lot of this when the VW diesels made a come back and techs were not diesel trained. I think the reason for VW dropping the warranty from 100k miles on their engines was EGR & intake cleaning. The turbo's on the other hand lasted on averaged the life of the engine or more. It seems like I read on the TDI forum the VNT turbo averaged 200k to 300k miles and it is like the one used on our CRD and the MB 5 cyl engine on the Sprinter. I think the real killer of the turbo was found to be using non synthetic oil and not allowing turbo cool down, otherwise they almost never gave any trouble. The only real problem was the accuating arm would rust up when not fully extended often enough because someone drove very fruggle for mileage and never exercised the turbo, the same will happen with ours. I always thought it was funny the week link in the turbo was the linkage.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

"Neither one of us could fathom that one. And they still had no idea what to do about removing the oil from his intercooler."

Thanks for the update on the loudness. Not what I had. First suspected that Grubbs didn't change the egr because when I looked underneath, two rubber hoses were hanging unconnected and two vacuum caps were on the metal tube extensions. (Sorry, about not finding out exactly what I was looking at.) Was taking a day trip back then and went back to have the hoses reconnected and was told the caps were from the new egr and the mechanic forget to connect things up. When he put his hands up there, down came my coolant from the reservior tank. You tell me what happened. No distilled water at their dealership to mix with the new anti-freeze(dealers seem to all use tap water(is this the reason for the lawsuit on long life coolant ).

The radiator shop freightliner sent me to said he could open the top and sides? crimping of the "cac" and clean it (if I take it off the crd)but if the goo has hardened then probably not. He can buy aftermarket cac's/intercoolers for the big rigs for $600 but nothing for the crd from his suppliers. Full retail for ours ~$600 with cost well over $400.

Fill the tank with hot simple green (vs a strong solvent) and sump pump it out or blow it like old navy said. My home made ccv is off, too many miles of 0w40. We have a 7/100k extra factory warranty. I'm tired. Saw old navy link to air filter test again and put the premium purolator (chinese) and took off the cheaper thinner but more pleats purolator(American). Turbo lag again. Thin filter - instantaneous throttle response but how much particulate was getting thru. I am waiting for a washable aem - no oil needed - nano fiber filter.

I had "EGR valve" replaced twice. This last episode, they told me the thing threw an EGR code, but they were not going to replace that, as it had (now) the newest/best possible, and there was no sense in putting in the same, they ALSO got a code for what they called "the throttle body" and they were going to replace that. That turned out to be part # 5142799AA, and replacing that along with the CCV valve seems to have solved the problem, at least for 1,000 miles so far, knock on wood.

They gave me the dead part 5142799AA, charged me $592 for the new one, and I'd sell it to ya, 'cept it's sorta tied up in litigation right now. For what it is worth, it appears that THIS part can throw a spurious EGR code while in the process of going bad, as I had a check engine light with EGR code for about 6,000 miles before she just quit working altogether.

They told me that the "throttle body" had sensors in it that would be ruined by ANY liquid, and that DC had suggested cleaning it out by running a rag through it, but not ever, under any circumstances, to use any liquid to clean it, not water, not carb cleaner, not kerosene, no liquids, period, end of story. Mine, however, was clearly dead as a doornail.

I can't see any sort of sensor exposed to the flow of intake gasses. It makes sense as an anti-shudder valve, and on the box it is described as "ELECTRICAL INTAKE VALVE TH" whatever that means. It LOOKS like a solenoid actuated butterfly valve, and probably has some sort of variable stops system in it.

The told me that DC would not replace it under warranty if there were any amount of any liquids whatever inside it when it failed, regardless of the origin or composition of those liquids. This was the justification given for denying my warranty claim on it, since there was clearly oil from the CCV throughout the intake system.

I note that when the thing was changed, I also had 'em replace the 0w-40 oil in the crankcase with 5w-40 Mobil 1 Truck & SUV oil. I drove it 10 miles or so home, installed the Provent, and in the next 100 miles saw quite a bit of oil discharge coat the clear hose from the CCV to the Provent. Clear line from the Provent to the turbo remained clean as a whistle. Since then I've put on that 1,000 miles, and it appears the CCV discharge may be abating. Based upon how much oil was in the CCV-Provent line, I'd have expected some accumulation in the drain hose. I pulled the whole thing yesterday to inspect it, and to my surprise, although there was clearly stuff in the filter, both the drain hose and the Provent-turbo line remain clean as a whistle. I think I'm going to wipe out the CCV-Provent line and see how quickly it gets recoated.

Naturist,

The service manual schematic shows the butterfly valve in the intake as being a solenoid valve. It is not drawn as having position feedback. It is my understanding that the computer looks for a change in mass air flow at the air filter to determine if this valve is doing its thing or not. The three wires going to the valve are shown as power for the solenoid and a ground. None of the other solenoids show a separate ground. That is still a mystery to me. If you wind up with the valve after litigation let me know and I'll buy it. I don't buy the liquid causing sensors in the valve to fail. I would believe that exhaust soot and crank vent crap caused it to stick and burn out. If the solenoid coil shorted or opened as a result of the failure I think that would throw a code. If I understand the manual correctly the computer is monitoring the current flow to the coil. Too much (from a short) or too little (from an open) and it will throw a code.

_________________
Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k

I don't buy the sensors/liquid story, either, I'm just telling you what the mechanic told me DC had told him. He was fixing to scour it good with carb cleaner or something, and DC stopped him from doing that, for whatever reason. Given that it doesn't appear to have any separate sensors, but does appear to have at least one more lead than a simple solenoid would need, however, there's something strange there for sure.

I note that mine seemed to run fine, unless you stepped on the go pedal harder than the barest minimum, when it would lose power to the extent it barely ran. Idled smoothly, mind you, but had zippo for power. But if you shut it off for a moment, then restarted, it seemed to reset something, and ran fine, as long as you barely touched the go pedal.

I note that unplugged and laying there in the box, the valve is fully open.

What you are describing sounds like a MAF failure. It would possibly explain the third wire.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine