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CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81182		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  rmartin [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
Tried searching, no luck. 06, 80K miles CRD starts normally, idles 5 or 6 seconds, dies. Pump the primer 25 times or so till I get resistance, then it starts normally and runs with no problem till the next morning. Know I am getting air, no visible leaks, all stock except for the GDE and Sun Coast TC. Had this when it was new, can't remember how I fixed it. Richard
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
The one best cure for air in the fuel:
There can always be air inleakage without a in-tank lift pump!
If you install an in-tank lift pump, any air inleakage leaks in the entire system will immediately become visible fuel leaks to the outside that can be quickly identified... With a in-tank lift pump, the whole system will be under ~14 psig positive pressure instead of the injection pump having to suck the fuel all the way from the tank and through several fittings and the fuel filter and filter head. If you have any leaks anywhere in the system, fittings, filters, etc., air will be sucked in causing all kinds of problems...
The slip on "O ring" fittings were designed for positive pressure on gas vehicles, NOT for the suction side of any fuel pump no matter the location! Some have cut them out and replaced them with new hose and screw clamps... :wink:
Cummins in-tank lift pumps part numbers:
DCJ (P)52121447AD
CARTER P76148M
AIRTEX E7181M

How to install:
http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/
Author:  rmartin [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
Appreciate the one best cure, but I am 700 miles from home spending the winter in warm S. Texas. RV park barley allows washing your car, no way they are going to go for 20 hours of a jacked up Jeep sitting in the street. Is there a second best likely cure for this over night loss of prime? Thanks again, Richard
Author:  thermorex [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
rmartin wrote:
Appreciate the one best cure, but I am 700 miles from home spending the winter in warm S. Texas. RV park barley allows washing your car, no way they are going to go for 20 hours of a jacked up Jeep sitting in the street. Is there a second best likely cure for this over night loss of prime? Thanks again, Richard


An inline pump may help if the air leak is not severe. Facet or Kennedy diesel. You can mount it in the engine compartment but best is close to the tank. Also, try somehow to tape the fuel tank quick connects, that's where they probably suck air from. You may try with some black silicon (autozone or any parts shop), put it around the joint, not sure if it will work but it's worth a try and takes few minutes.

Oh, if you don't have the 2nd gen fuel head, you may wanna get it, as old one has leaks over time due to bad heater element.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
Comments:
1. From your writeup I cannot be sure you are actually bleeding the filter head. If I'm wrong ignore this comment. Just pumping until the pump gets had without opening bleeder screw won't remove the air. Correct technique (I like to have a bit of vinyl tubing on the bleeder screw leading to a catch can/bottle as it keeps the mess down and lets you see when air bubbles stop) pump primer, crack bleeder, when fuel flow stops, close bleeder, repeat.
2. do you have a 1st gen fuel filter head (on 2 gen the 2 electric plugs are essentially the same size and the one on the right as viewed from the front has a blue cap)? If you have a 1st gen filter head get a 2n gen one and the wiring pigtail (ca. $125 with new filter and WIF sensor already installed).
3. check filter head for leaks (both electric plugs, WIF sensor on bottom, bleeder screw, primer pump shaft, both hoses and fittings) using a dry paper towel. If leaks found fix if possible or replace defective item.
4. did you recently change your fuel filter? If so did you accidentally leave the inner gasket on?
5. if none of the above consider:
a. an inline fuel pump either in the engine bay or ideally back near the tank as in http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/kennedy.htm . A good relatively inexpensive inline pump is the Facet 40109 (4-7psi) or a maybe a pump from a 1995 or so 6.5 TDI Chevy Tahoe (NAPA part #AFP E3309 or Airtex E3309) pump. The Facet is available from http://www.yachtsupplydepot.com/mechani ... t_697.html . Be sure to use marine grade diesel rated fuel hose not the cheap stuff.
b. consider dropping the tank and replacing the fuel supply line quick disconnect fittings with solid fuel hose. Absent filter head leaks these fittings are the most common source of air in the fuel line. IMHO the intank pump while a nice addition is not essential if these fittings are replaced.

PS while taping the quick disconnects might help I suspect that if you have enough access to try tape then you have enough access to cut out and replace with hose. I may be wrong but it's my understanding the fittings are on top of the tank.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
I thought that the collective wisdom was that anything over 7-8 psi was too much.

DOC
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
DOC4444 wrote:
I thought that the collective wisdom was that anything over 7-8 psi was too much.DOC

The CP3 fuel pump has a return circuit where any excess pressure that it does not need it returned to the fuel tank. It is one of the 4 connections on the 4-fittings plastic header bolted to the left rear side of the head, drivers side.
So 12-14 psig is of no concern....
:D
Author:  rmartin [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
1. No, I was not bleeding the line, just pumping the primer.
2. Must be 1st gen as I have not changed it and there is nothing blue on the fuel filter head.
3. Everything around the fuel filter head, and the wif sensor are dry.
4. Fuel filter is due changing and the inner gasket was removed when filter was changed. All has been fine for almost a year.
5. In line pump is a great fix, will have to wait till I get home. Going for the black silicone tape this afternoon.
papaindigo, thank you.

WWDiesel, Where is, "It is one of the 4 connections on the 4-fittings plastic header bolted to the left rear side of the head, drivers side." I do not understand what you are telling me. Is it on the new pump? Or is it on the 2nd gen fuel head? Which I do not have. Or perhaps neat the diesel tank?

Thanks to papaindigo and WWDiesel and all who replied!!! Richard
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
Responses by the number:
1. if you just pumped the primer all you did was "pressurize" the air. Unless you crack the bleeder, repeat the cycle I mentioned 3-5 times you are doing nothing to remove the air currently trapped in the filter head. That's why the problem repeats every day. Bleed it and your immediate problem will go away otherwise the air will just sit there.
2 & 3. replace 1s gen head with 2n gen head. I had air in fuel problems with 1s gen head and no visible leaks but if I stuck a "Q" tip into the recess of the heater element plug that "Q" tip stunk of diesel. When I replaced the 1s gen head the heater element was obviously burnt inside. No subsequent air in fuel problems.
4. good
5. don't waste time and $s on silicone tape. See #1 above.

What WWDiesel is referring to is this (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80939&p=853259#p853259); the plastic thing that in this case has one tip broken off. Has nothing to do with air in the fuel.

The quick disconnects that are the most common source of air are pictured at http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/ ; just scroll down a bit.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
Pumping and actually bleeding your filter head should get you by until you can research and choose a pump option that has been suggested
Author:  rmartin [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
Just one more question, unless I have problems when I get home. Have all the 1st gen fuel filter heads been consumed from the Jeep parts bins? What is the PN for the second gen.? Thanks to all, again. Richard
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD starts normally, dies from lack of fuel
In stock here (http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info ... 1e3039fe1a) but inventory is low. I'd order now.

Install is easy, doesn't take long or much in the way of tools, and can be done where you are in say 30 minutes if weather is good.
1. undo 2 fuel line clamps at filter head. Push don't pull the lines off
2. unplug both electrical connections
3. undo 2 bolts holding head to bracket.
4. lift up carefully until you can unplug wire to the WIF sensor on the bottom of the filter. There is enough wire.
5. reverse to install new head except don't plug in heater connection
6. bleed new filter per my previous bleeding note
7. disconnect battery
8. cut wires to heater element plug
9. match new heater element wires to old ones as nearly as possible by size not color
10. slide new wires thru new plug based on the match in #9
11. secure new wires in plug with plastic clip
12. attach new wires to old - rosin core solder and quality electrical tape or I used marine grade butt connectors with preinstalled heat shrink tubing.
13. hook battery back up.

Likely not necessary but I'd recommend rebleeding the head after your next drive "just because"
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