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Crd issues
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81426		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  05crdjeep [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Crd issues
If this isn't the right place, please let me know. My daughter has a 05 crd liberty it started doing something strange today and need help. It's missing and stalling at idle. This is our first crd and I know a little but not a lot. I'm kinda hoping for the best and expecting the worse. I've done a little research online everyone says you guys on this forum are the best around. I'm changing the fuel filter tomorrow. Here's a video what it's doing at idle and only gets worst when you give it throttle. https://vimeo.com/120555516





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Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Is there a check engine light on? If so, get the codes read and let us know what they are. The vibration/misfire and random clank sound most likely means your engine has some internal damage (worn rocker arms are very common on this engine).
Author:  05crdjeep [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
The check engine light is on but only codes I have are egr related. I'm assuming engine damage also but the clanks and knocks are so intermittent and holds no rhythm. I have had motors before with valve train issues and non of them acted like this. Are the rocker arms pretty strait forward on changing? I've done a lot on gas motors but not anything diesel related, I'd assume it's pretty much the same.


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Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Nothing is easy or straight forward on this engine.

Im not convinced its the rockers. The sound is too random and doesnt match the rpm.
Id be looking at the fan belt and pulleys. Could be the ac, viscous heater, or even the alternator.

How well does it drive?
Author:  amslube [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
I agree with flash.. For starters remove the serpentine belt and see if the random clunk goes away.
Author:  geordi [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
05crdjeep:

Where are you located? It may be helpful for the future if you have a city listed in the location field of your profile, so we can know if someone is nearby to you or if there are good mechanics anywhere around.

With your video... That has me scratching my head a bit. What concerns me (that I cannot yet identify) is the randomness of that noise, and the fact that the engine seemed to jump the first time it did it. That is a fairly strong change in the power/speed of the motor when it does that!

Has the alternator idler ever been changed? These have a "clutch" that does fail, and sometimes it fails seized shut. That isn't a good thing, and can easily lead to the serpentine tensioner destroying itself. This is the first thing to try, as was suggested above. Remove the serpentine belt, and run the engine again and see if anything changes.

Rockers are a possibility, but they are an either/or kind of part. Either they are failed and it runs like crap all the time... Or they aren't. Intermittent like this is not one of the usual failure modes for rockers.

How many miles on the engine? Has the timing belt been replaced? Does it seem to perform normally when not at idle?
Author:  05crdjeep [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Sorry, I am in Catoosa, Oklahoma. The motor has 103,000 on the odometer, the timing belt has never been replaced to my knowledge. My daughter bought it with 98,000 so she hasn't had it long. Thanks for the input I will pull belt tonight and see what she does! Thanks again!


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Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
What is the position of the Mode Selector knob (lower center climate control knob) on the dash? Try switching it to "O" for Off and see if anything changes. I mention this because the AC compressor cycles in several vent modes even if the AC is off and the temp control is set for heat. There have been reports of odd serp belt behavior when the compressor cycles on/off if the alternator clutch/decoupler pulley is bad; in which case the behavior would not correlate with engine rpm.

PS based on what you just said the timing belt job needs to be done like now.
Author:  05crdjeep [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
I had everything off last night as far as a/c and defrost


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Author:  amslube [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Did you remove the serpentine belt to eliminate everything in the front? If so and it's still there, my next step with an irregular clunk would be to listen a bit more closely to the actual location of the source. I know this is difficult due to sounds traveling along steel. Could possibly be loose bolts that connect the torque converter to the flex plate. Just a thought...
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
We may be talking past each other. With the AC button off and the mode knob in a position other than defrost the AC compressor may still cycle. So I'll ask again what position was the mode knob in. Options are O which is off; recirculate; top vents only; top vent and floor (e.g. bilevel); floor only; floor and defrost; or defrost.

Alternatively just set the mode knob to O and see if it makes any difference.
Author:  05crdjeep [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
I havnt took the belt off yet but will tonight, I will check the mode knob but I believe I turned it off cause it's the only way I could get the air to stop coming out of the vents. Thanks for your input guys!


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Author:  Hexus [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
1. Read the Noob Guide for reference points.

2. Check the serpentine belt as they suggest.

3. Check both of the turbo hoses.

4. That clunk sounds bad, and I fear that you do have a rocker/lifter issue. I watched the belts and didn't see anything there, but I did see the whole engine jumping in your video.

5. Your location, as Geordi suggested? (Doesn't have to be your address, lol, city/state is fine.)
Author:  geordi [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
He said it - He's in Catoosa, Oklahoma, just NE of Tulsa. Not exactly convenient if my next trip has me hitting Chicago and Toronto... But I might be able to make it work if there are enough people.

I'd like to know more first though. I've seen some GOOFY engine idles when the alternator is seized. The one I just did in South Florida here (a member from Maine, of all places!) didn't even know his pulley was frozen, and it had already cost him a bundle at a stealership where they replaced the tensioner (gouged a HUGE path in itself in the power steering pulley) and those idiots also managed to DENT the PS pulley by (apparently) using an air hammer on it to get the tensioner out without removing the pulley!

Then there was the radiator pinhole they caused with the air hammer and dropping the fan while trying to get the shroud out - denying the whole thing, but "generously" offering to replace the radiator for another $600...

See why I don't like stealerships?
Author:  05crdjeep [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Ok the mystery continues, I took the belt off and had no change. I decided to rev a little to keep it running cause it wants to die and at steady 1800 rpms it purs and sounds nice but every 5 secs or so there's an apparent miss. I decided to put it in drive and hold the break to see if I could get the turbo to spool any and as I leaned into the throttle and could start to hear the turbo spooling up the back tires break loose, which surprised me cause with the way it sounds at idle you would think the engine is coming apart and not have any power but it is so smooth in the upper end of the rpms. I took a picture of my drive way cause I only power stalled for about 4 seconds, just enough to hear boost and it left a black stain on my drive from the exhaust. Image


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Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Not that this will help with your main problem, but on the next oil change. Add the exact number of quarts and put a new mark on the dipstick so you never fill past that mark. It's normally too much, and you'll blow it out the tailpipe. Hopefully that's why you are blowing oil...
Author:  geordi [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
That may not be oil, could easily be a soot stain. Been there, made that. Its nothing to worry about, but the infrequency of the miss is confusing. The most likely suspect at this point is still a rocker, but the timing (heh) makes very little sense.

More investigation is needed, but unfortunately, it will take a teardown to the rockers to get any more answers. At least it isn't banging continuously, that would be a bad sign of a rod knock.

Next thing to try - you have a new fuel filter on it, right? The inlet line of the fuel head should be connected to an "IV bottle" of diesel fuel (there isn't anything in the tank to spill fuel) so that you can eliminate the fuel lines from the tank. From what I remember, the inlet side of the fuel head is the driver's side of the fuel manager. Confirm this just by tracing the fuel lines, one of them should obviously aim forward to the pump.

Try a separate bottle (a soda bottle will be plenty) of diesel and a length of hose to that connection, and start it up and let it run a little and see if anything changes. If not... that eliminates the fuel system from the problem search.
Author:  amslube [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
Was it running good then suddenly this noise started? She didn't by any chance put some gasoline rather than diesel in the tank?
Author:  05crdjeep [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
I will definitely find out if she accidentally put gas in instead of diesel. And yes she was on her way home from work and just out of no where it started doing this. Thanks you for all the help!


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Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd issues
It's seems like it's most definitely fuel related. If it was electrical some sort of code would appear. Gas in the diesel could do some funky things. A failing injector that's sticking open could do as your video shows. As rpms climb so does the amount of time the injector is open so it seems to smooth out.
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