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| Conversion Question: CRD Commander http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81463 |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
Does anyone know if there has ever been a conversion attempted to take our 2.8L CRD from a Liberty and swap it into a Jeep Commander? My Engine is still running strong, but I am thinking I may need to get creative for my long-term vehicle plans. Getting a GCK CRD still only allows for 5 seats. Thoughts more clearly defined with additional caffeine injected to body: -The Engine/trans from the CRD Lib should bolt in to a Commander (CDR). The driveshaft off the Hemi Commander should align perfectly with the 545RFE, since CDR uses the same trans as the Lib. Commander had the Hemi/545RFE transmission, so the trans would bolt right up. -The engine mounts for both vehicles support the 3.7L V-6, meaning there is some sort of similarity in mounts between the two models. The Liberty chassis also Holds the same V-6 as the Commander, so there must be some kind of motor mount similarity (speculation). The V-6 is 210 HP and 235 TQ. The 4.7L V-8 was 235 HP, 295 TQ. The 5.7L was (then) 345 HP, 375 TQ. My 2.8L CRD is 188 HP and 335 TQ (Thanks Green Diesel). Torque is between the 4.7 & 5.7. HP is under the V-6. End result, performance wise, would be, likely, about equal to the 4.7L-ish... -I'm not a speed demon, and just want something comfortable to drive that doesn't get gasser V-8 mpg. The Lib has a 3.73 axle ratio. It is the same transfer case assembly available on the Commander? -This is not a plan for immediate execution, just thinking ahead a few years. Ya gotta admit it that a CRD CDR, getting 24-25 mpg, and a beast of a tow vehicle would be cool as f**k. All the bells and whistles of a CDR (sunroof, nav system, seating for 7, a 7,200 tow cap, etc) would be nice to have coupled with a diesel. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
There have been various engine transplant discussions from time to time but I don't recall anyone ever actually successfully doing one. From a mechanical perspective doing a transplant shouldn't be all that technically difficult although it may involve fabricating some mounting adapters. That said the main stumbling block appears to be getting the the appropriate parts of the 2 vehicles computerized electronic systems integrated and properly communicating with each other. Adding to that difficulty are the differences between the 05 and 06 computer systems vs. whatever the system the destination vehicle has. Unfortunately the good old days ability to move engine/tranny from one vehicle to another even between brands with no more difficulty than some motor mount fixes and a drive shaft adapter are long gone. |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
papaindigo wrote: There have been various engine transplant discussions from time to time but I don't recall anyone ever actually successfully doing one. From a mechanical perspective doing a transplant shouldn't be all that technically difficult although it may involve fabricating some mounting adapters. That said the main stumbling block appears to be getting the the appropriate parts of the 2 vehicles computerized electronic systems integrated and properly communicating with each other. Adding to that difficulty are the differences between the 05 and 06 computer systems vs. whatever the system the destination vehicle has. Unfortunately the good old days ability to move engine/tranny from one vehicle to another even between brands with no more difficulty than some motor mount fixes and a drive shaft adapter are long gone. If it were to from an 06 Lib to an 06 CDR, do you think that'd help at all? And I wonder if Keith at GDE would be able to weigh in on the 'puter synch issues. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
It might be less difficult than an 05 KJ to 06 CDR but I frankly have no clue. Keith would be a good person to directly ask the question, you can email him via the GDE website. Without asking him to provide details he might could provide a clue as to whether or not it's even theoretically feasible. |
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| Author: | flman [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
flman wrote: Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? DMV has no issue with it. It'd be tested the same as the Liberty currently is. I just got off the phone with them regarding this. Legally, there is no issue. It'd get the same OBD test the Liberty already goes through. |
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| Author: | racertracer [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
Cool. |
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| Author: | flman [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
Rixram wrote: flman wrote: Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? DMV has no issue with it. It'd be tested the same as the Liberty currently is. I just got off the phone with them regarding this. Legally, there is no issue. It'd get the same OBD test the Liberty already goes through. Then I would get a new sticker, do the transplant, and you have a year to work the bugs out. I wonder it ultra-leftist NY would allow this? |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
flman wrote: Rixram wrote: flman wrote: Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? DMV has no issue with it. It'd be tested the same as the Liberty currently is. I just got off the phone with them regarding this. Legally, there is no issue. It'd get the same OBD test the Liberty already goes through. Then I would get a new sticker, do the transplant, and you have a year to work the bugs out. I wonder it ultra-leftist NY would allow this? NY is not on my top 10,000 list of concerns. |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
flman wrote: Rixram wrote: flman wrote: Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? DMV has no issue with it. It'd be tested the same as the Liberty currently is. I just got off the phone with them regarding this. Legally, there is no issue. It'd get the same OBD test the Liberty already goes through. Then I would get a new sticker, do the transplant, and you have a year to work the bugs out. I wonder it ultra-leftist NY would allow this? Also, the other issue is if I could have it operation (read: running, nevermind perfect) inside of a week. I'm not the sort to be able to afford multiple vehicles. I am, frequently, a shoot from the hip personality, however, I firmly believe that something like this is not the time for "Ready-Fire-Aim" approach. If I'd be the first to try this, okay, but if not, I'd dearly love input from others for such an endeavor, were I to undertake it. My #1 concern is software. |
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| Author: | GreenDieselEngineering [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
You would need all the electrical system from the KJ (wiring, ecm, tcm, can bus, etc.). The only issue might be configuring the wheel speed sensors to the KJ electrical architecture. It might be easier to install the WK diesel into the commander as there are many parts available for it. The Commander was sold with the 3.0l Mercedes engine in 2007-2008 in Europe. |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
Rixram wrote: flman wrote: Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? DMV has no issue with it. It'd be tested the same as the Liberty currently is. I just got off the phone with them regarding this. Legally, there is no issue. It'd get the same OBD test the Liberty already goes through. Emissions scanner reads bar code directly off VIN label on instrument panel, automatically calls and runs all test procedures specified for that VIN - procedures are resident in master computers usually located in DOT\DMV headquarters in state capitol If VIN is for gasoline engine, automated testing will be for spark-igniton gasoline emissions, not even similar or compatible with Diesel emissions testing which has no procedure for spark-advance\rpm, amongst many other incompatible inconsistencies F'rinstance, how're you gonna get CRD 22000psi rail pressure to pass the test for 65psi gasoline rail pressure lower\upper limits? If you could fool the state emissions computer into accepting and passing the Diesel engine, which you cannot, the fuel tank test alone would result in failure - no big deal there, of course: just swapout the fuel tank and filler hoses and hope the state computer doesn't notice the lack of ethanol in the fuel components test - the ethanol percentage up to 15%/volume is used to measure gasoline fuel combustion quality for emissions specifics Not only that, but if you did get the swap done and running, which would not pass emissions testing, to convert back to gasoline would require the re-converted vehicle be taken to an official emissions certification facility for re-testing and recertification of all emissions components to federal standards for that vehicle - that expense alone is enuff to scare-off any intrepid swappers After all the required labor and figgerin'-out to do the swap, it'd be a shame to have to paint the vehicle green and hide it out back in the tall grass and weeds |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
You can always register the jeep in a non inspection state/county (which is very easy IF you have a reliable friend in such a state/county). If your state allows registration of such a vehicle, you're set. |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
gmctd wrote: Rixram wrote: flman wrote: Being in the leftist East coast, if RI requires and emissions inspection, I wonder if the state computer would even accept the commander with a diesel? DMV has no issue with it. It'd be tested the same as the Liberty currently is. I just got off the phone with them regarding this. Legally, there is no issue. It'd get the same OBD test the Liberty already goes through. Emissions scanner reads bar code directly off VIN label on instrument panel, automatically calls and runs all test procedures specified for that VIN - procedures are resident in master computers usually located in DOT\DMV headquarters in state capitol If VIN is for gasoline engine, automated testing will be for spark-igniton gasoline emissions, not even similar or compatible with Diesel emissions testing which has no procedure for spark-advance\rpm, amongst many other incompatible inconsistencies F'rinstance, how're you gonna get CRD 22000psi rail pressure to pass the test for 65psi gasoline rail pressure lower\upper limits? If you could fool the state emissions computer into accepting and passing the Diesel engine, which you cannot, the fuel tank test alone would result in failure - no big deal there, of course: just swapout the fuel tank and filler hoses and hope the state computer doesn't notice the lack of ethanol in the fuel components test - the ethanol percentage up to 15%/volume is used to measure gasoline fuel combustion quality for emissions specifics Not only that, but if you did get the swap done and running, which would not pass emissions testing, to convert back to gasoline would require the re-converted vehicle be taken to an official emissions certification facility for re-testing and recertification of all emissions components to federal standards for that vehicle - that expense alone is enuff to scare-off any intrepid swappers After all the required labor and figgerin'-out to do the swap, it'd be a shame to have to paint the vehicle green and hide it out back in the tall grass and weeds Actually, there is a procedure in place in RI that legally changes it from gasser to Diesel emissions. Perhaps I wasn't clear before, but the State lets you reclassify the vehicle, legally. |
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| Author: | Rixram [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
thermorex wrote: You can always register the jeep in a non inspection state/county (which is very easy IF you have a reliable friend in such a state/county). If your state allows registration of such a vehicle, you're set. The state lets you re-categorize/reclassify the vehicle. |
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| Author: | diesel_guy86 [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
I *think* scheid diesel sells a Bosch ecm that can be custom setup to any common rail diesel engine. Pretty much a standalone unit. I'm just thinking, could that be used with the outputs tied into the factory harness to run the gauges? I don't know, just shotgunning an idea.... |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Conversion Question: CRD Commander |
Good luck with it, then - be good if the Commander has 3.73 final drive ratio, and you'd need to determine the tooth-count on the wheel-speed sensors for rotation\mile for speedo and ABS compatibility |
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