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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:52 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
rancherman wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
:shock: THAT is COOL!! EDIT: The engine stand... :P (The toe causes sympathetic pain)

I've never seen one held that way, but can see the advantages! :rockon: :POPCORN:

Thanks!
quite common in the big diesel world.. hanging them from the side.. The really big brutes (900 cu in and up) will also have a mirror support that supports the far side too.
This should help with crank extraction; go vertical, and simply snatch it out the top. I have a 'work step' that attaches to those open tubes on the top of the stand.. I'll stand on it and simply reach down and pull the crank straight up and out.. no rips, tears, or snags!
Hopefully, I won't have to report a failed back flip attempt! :roll:

I hear it's not always that easy...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87478&p=923830&hilit=crankshaft#p923830


I'm prepared for any contingencies! Man, how did I miss that thread?!? LOL At first, I thought he may have forgot to remove the 3 locating pins.. But it makes sense that those modules would be an interference fit.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:51 am 
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Bob, I think warming of the block with a small space heater may be in order to help open up the main journal bores clearances in the block slightly just enough to help facilitate extraction? :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:13 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Bob, I think warming of the block with a small space heater may be in order to help open up the main journal bores clearances in the block slightly just enough to help facilitate extraction? :idea:


Sounds like a good plan. 8)

All else fails, I got a Son fresh out of the Marine Corps, about 260#.. I keep him caged up and fed with raw meat, just for these situations! :BANANA:

Yep, some heat, in the right place for the right amount of time sure beats blood sweat and tears!

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Location: north central Nebraska
Finally!! The email I've been waiting for!

'your order has been sent"
I had the original order postponed until I got a little deeper in the engine.. I believe I'm as far as I need to go on the 'search and rescue'.

I used www.transferwise.com this time to send funds overseas.. only cost 8 bucks for the fee.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:56 am 
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Alright! Now you can get serious when all those parts arrive.... :rockon:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Location: north central Nebraska
WWDiesel wrote:
Alright! Now you can get serious when all those parts arrive.... :rockon:


According to DHL tracking, I should have it by end-of-day on June 5th! LOL, diesel parts apparently CAN fly!! :jester:

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:56 am 
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Location: north central Nebraska
My parts are getting real close!
They left the UK on Thursday, went through customs in Cincinnati later that day, and arrived in Omaha 0800 on Friday morning..
I should have them Monday or Tuesday!

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:09 pm 
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:BANANA: :pepper:
rancherman wrote:
My parts are getting real close!
They left the UK on Thursday, went through customs in Cincinnati later that day, and arrived in Omaha 0800 on Friday morning..
I should have them Monday or Tuesday!

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:17 am 
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Shipment held for 'duty tax/import tax' due.
Geez. I get this 'FINAL NOTICE' this morning that they'd send the parts back to England if I don't pay up..
'final'?? sheesh, this was all news to me!

Paid it, (about 40 bucks) and should be all good for the last leg of delivery.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:22 pm
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Location: north central Nebraska
So, got the 'shipment held' notice for payment needed on duty/import tax due.
Another 40 bucks.

The order officially shipped one week ago today. The 'Speedy Delivery' guy said he got lost yesterday trying to find my place... (not the first time). Otherwise, I'm impressed by how quick the box o' parts made it here.
Pictured here is;
Head,
HG
Head install kit ( all the gaskets and seals needed when changing the head)
OP gasket
front and rear main seals
large and small orings for crank support
piston rings
liner O-rings and shims
rod bolts and nuts
rod bearings
timing kit, minus water pump
3 alignment pins for balance shaft module + their O-rings (probably didn't need them, but got them 'just in case')
OP pickup tube o-ring
Also included in pic;
head studs
rocker arms.
Also included in order was the oil cooler gasket, but I have not found it as of yet. They only charged me about 4 bucks for it... so if it's AWOL, I'm not out too much.
Looking under box flaps, and amongst the packing material..

Image
Head has a 2008 casting date.
They really got it clean, but will need some 'detailing' before the actual install. Intake ports are spotless, as is the injector pockets and GP holes.
A good 'rinse and blow' should get most of the 'shipping dust bunnies'... and a little scrubbing with a scotch brite and some brake cleaner on the gasket surface should have it ready.
I guess I have no more excuses to stop me on this!

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Good looking parts! :BANANA:
time to go to work..... :ROTFL:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:26 pm 
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I haven't dismantled it much further since I ordered the parts... so got a little deeper this afternoon;
oil pan off, balance shaft module off, 3 locating pins out. If I get too far ahead with the dismantle, I tend to forget/misplace for the assembly process.. First good news to report; no evidence of 'extra curricular' activity in the oil pan. Just good clean black oil.

Checked around my tools for a 12 point socket for the rod bolts... I was not impressed by how loose the 10mm socket felt on those heads.. a 3/8ths fits snug as a bug. 9mm is a no-go.

Need to snag a couple extra t50's tomorrow for flex plate removal.. I'll heat the ends of the flex plate bolts to help break them loose. Sounds like there is thread locker involved. Also need to snag a metric allen bit set to reach the oil squirter jets. I can see the benefit of magnetized driver bits already.. even with the ability to twirl the engine to any position, my big mitts and blindness :shock: will be taxed when threading those squirters back up!!
One neat observation; Those squirters are pointed directly at the piston's wrist pin oiling hole. This baby is well lubed.
Another observation; All 3 O-rings that seal the balance shaft module to the block were baked and broke.

Should have either good news, or 'stuck in the mud' with the actual crank removal in next day or so..
I've read, and re-read the FSM on 'crank removal'. ahem, 'we shall soon find out' just how accurate the FSM is on 'Next , gently slide crank out rear of engine'... :roll: In my case, I'll PULL it vertically up out of the block..

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Posts: 393
Location: north central Nebraska
Correction; Rod bolts, crank adapter bolts, are NOT 12 point heads.
They are 'E' driver, as in "External Torx" head.
Got my readin' glasses out, and seen the heads of the bolts were rounded point star pattern..

So, knocked out the pistons, (immediately mate the rod caps up to their rods they came from!! YOU DO NOT WANT TO EVER MIX THESE UP!!! Journals and bearings look excellent. Still, i'll reassemble with new bearings. I have no reason to split the main bearing modules. My end-play is still within spec, and I've never seen a main bearing go 'bad' and not mark the crap out of the rod journal it feeds.
Piston skirts had normal to minimum 'scuffing'... And not really into the aluminum.. just the coating is a little 'rubbed'. I'll have them soakin' in my parts cleaner later tonight.

Used the acetylene torch to give each head of the flex plate bolts about 5 second blast.. and they all easily broke loose. Sure could smell the locktite! It barely dulled the finish on the heads.
So, after removing the adapter housing from the block, crank adapter hub, rear crankshaft seal and plate (use a couple of bolts to 'push out' this part from block) There are 2 threaded holes just for this purpose. (I used 2 of the allen head screws that fasten the front crankshaft OP and vacuum pump gear on) I was 'ready'!!
Not knowing just how 'difficult' this was going to be, (getting the main bearing modules to just 'slide' out of the block, I geared up!!
spun the engine vertical, nose down; and put a hydraulic jack against the crank nose. I figured if I put more pressure on the crank than what the block, engine stand weigh together.... I'd stop and start my 'block heating' phase
Image

All that worry for nothing!! Shoot, soon as the jack touched the snout, up she came!.
Image
The block didn't even 'wiggle'. :BANANA:
So, my son either had to stand on the top of the engine stand, and not backflip off it while he played 'catch'... or we did it the 'easy way'.. and got the cherry picker out
Image

I continued to jack as son 'took up slack' with the hoist... and I also made dang sure the crank snout didn't bugger the front main bearing (still in the block) This is why there is a special tool that slides over the snout; to protect the bearing, and give a little longer 'handle' to guide the crank. I imagine a chunk of plastic pipe would fare well for those who take the crank when horizontal.

Honestly, I was amazed how easy it came out. Barely more pressure was needed besides the weight of the crank.. I couldn't even 'feel' pressure on the jack handle.

I thought maybe each bearing module might be slightly smaller than the next one... NOPE. all the same size, front to rear.. You must keep the crank STRAIGHT AND ALIGNED even for the final module to pass through the block bore.
Image


Left the crank position tone ring on, and sacked up the assembly to keep clean and dry.
Removed the piston squirters last, (yes, everything can be removed before the squirters... just pay attention as you go.)

Got some measurements to make a simple arbor to press the liners out. The smallest plate I have is for a Perkins, with a 3-7/8ths bore.. Just a hair too big.
I'm going to reuse these liners, so I want to be pretty 'square' on removing them. Otherwise, I'd just drive them out with a block of wood and a 2 pound hammer.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Location: north central Nebraska
Did some clean up on the pistons
Before:
Image
After:
Image
Image

You can see the very slight imprint the exhaust valves left:
Image

And This part surprised me; The oil jet spray is pointed directly into one of the larger holes. in fact, when piston is at BDC, the nozzle is actually just inside this hole. From there, the oil goes up into a cavity just under the head of the piston. Some of it runs out the smaller hole in the center, and keeps the wrist pin and small end of the connecting rod well lubed. The rest of the oil runs out the far side large hole.
Image
I've only seen where the oiler simply shoots towards the bottom of the piston... This is a whole 'nother level!

For the DIY'r... Berryman Chem Dip in the gallon can (about 19 bucks) is a pretty good product. Believe it or not, I found this at Walmart.
For these pistons, you are looking at a 24 hour dunk.
The top ring is a 'half keystone' design, They tend to be pretty good at 'self cleaning', and stuck rings are almost non existent.
The second ring however, is your basic 'regular' flat ring. All four of these rings were 'stuck' in at least one spot.
My main goal on cleaning these pistons was to get the ring grooves absolutely sanitary. Not near as important, is how clean the tops came out. The slight stain left is not a problem.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:22 pm
Posts: 393
Location: north central Nebraska
well, a little deeper we got;

rigged up a simple pulling bar/arbor/plate to ease the liners out.

I got a flat plate made out of 3/4" stock, 2X4 inches. Drilled a 3/4 hole in the center. Rounded off the corners. The plate then engaged the bottom of the liners without hitting the boss for the oil squirter.

I used a chunk of old draw bar for the top plate (hence the John Deere Green Paint) with a couple of 2x2 wood spacers to hold it off the deck. The 'T" welded across the rod is from another project.. I re-purpose the heck out stuff around here!

Another piece of wood block to keep the treaded rod off the cylinder walls during assembly of the rig.

Image

Took less than maybe 30 ft. lbs to break the liner loose, then it was a nice, easy smooth pull for another 2 inches.

Numbered them as they came out. O-rings all looked good. I did 'catch' one on the way out.
Block is painted inside too. Still, tell tale signs of corrosion are evident. Something is 'up' with cylinder #3.
Image

Here is #3 liner, compared to #1. Notice the classic 'thumbprint' left by the original installer on #1
Image

Didn't take long to discover why #3 was hit so hard; Notice the tell tale trail of migrating combustion (dark trail just below the step the liner sits on)
Image
I've been asked why a liner will drop. Sometimes, it's not set up quite right at the factory (came out at the minimum specs, but got OK'd anyway) sometimes it's material quality, but most of the time, it's coolant quality.
I see the original shims on my liners appear copper colored. My replacement ones are definitely yellow (brass)

A quick look with the 10x inspection goggs, and at this time, I can't see any detrimental scoring or torching of the liner lands. Lower bore also appears smooth and unmolested. :BANANA:

I was going to hone the liners before I took them out, just so I didn't have to figure out how to hold them... but decided to try my luck with them out of the block. I have a couple ideas I'm kicking around yet.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


Last edited by rancherman on Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:45 pm 
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Ogg, all that rust is UGLY!!!! :(
Good antifreeze should not have allowed that to take place.... :shock:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:22 pm
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Location: north central Nebraska
WWDiesel wrote:
Ogg, all that rust is UGLY!!!! :(
Good antifreeze should not have allowed that to take place.... :shock:


"Joys of buying a used vehicle".. :roll:

OH, BTW, I found my Sasquatch baggie yesterday!! I bought the 2nd half of the egr delete.. 3 yrs ago. And never installed.
'always the last place you look'...
Now, to find the engine mounts I got from Idparts!!

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lib conks out.. But I got a game plan thanks to L
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:22 pm
Posts: 393
Location: north central Nebraska
Preliminary clean up of that grungy #3 and the little plate I made to press against the bottom of the liner.
Honestly, I think a good piece of hardwood would suffice in knocking the liners out.
I've had liners absolutely 'glued' in place over the years... and it took some brute force to get them released. The O-rings can 'grow' to the block.. So I went ahead and built this 'just in case'. 2x4x 3/4 inch. *actually it's 2 plates of 3/8ths edged welded together.Image

Here's the kicker. This is the spot that aligned with the dark spot on the block;
Dimensionally, this will not effect how it's located in the block. Structurally? Time to do a crack test. This is located on the part that locates it radially. I need to find out if this is from a crack just under the web of the liner.. It appears like a erosion pocket, or a 'bad spot' in the material , such as a lamination flaw in the casting. Liners are centrifugally cast, and this may be just a slight flaw that surfaced. If it passes the crack test, it's going back in.

Image


This was by far the worst of the 4 cylinders. The other 3 should clean up much easier, although I was surprised that the deep pitting (if you can call it deep) was as good as it was.
For an engine that is basically halfway through the vehicles life, I'm re-building it with that in mind. For a body that could survive 500,000+ miles, I'd be doing a little more. This is basically just a re freshening. My plan is still to run this until next TB change, then if the body is worthy, do a total rebuild.

Those pits will never stop eroding, Keeping the proper coolant will sure help slow it down. I have confidence that It'll make it to 'next' time
But will replace with a new liner this week if needed.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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