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4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81534		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
I know this sounds crazy. But I have 4 CRD's (two investments, or punishment :mrgreen: ) and they all consume coolant. Now, I know what you're thinking, well, I bought one of them with a known bad head gasket, another one I earned it by overheating it, 3rd one rockers went and it overheated, 4th one had rockers collapse, and now it leaks after rocker replacement (by a dealership).

I think Geordi said, it's not if it leaks, but when...
Just trying to save you all some pain and major expense. $360 is nothing compared to going back in again...

No, I don't own any ARP or ID Parts stock, but that may change :jester:

Yes Geordi, I will get torque readings as I take the other 3 apart :roll:

:JEEPIN:
Author:  geordi [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
I'm not sure I understand how replacing the rockers would cause head gasket leaks, unless the better airflow from more complete valve travel somehow increases the combustion pressures.

Either way, I feel for you. At the same time, you bought 4 of these things? Glutton for punishment, methinks. :banghead:

It will be interesting to see if your engines have similar loose bolts in the same locations as the other engines that have been reported on. A pattern is starting to slowly emerge from the data.
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
I'm just guessing that it was overheated when they collapsed, or totally unrelated. It has about 154k miles on it, and it's a real slow leak. I've got two that I'm tempted to forgo the gasket on, but man it would be a dumb move if they still leak! And, the one I'm selling would make me morally obligated to fix just the same as my own, but then they'd probably move to Katmandu, and the plane ticket...

You guys should see the timing belt on this thing, it's an 06 with about 154k miles on the belt. Supposedly changed... I popped the cover to check and could see obvious cracks on the OUTSIDE of the belt :shock: :shock: Now I won't even start it, so the head is coming off today :furious:
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
I ordered my studs from here:
http://lightningmotorsports.com/i-309359.aspx?gclid=CO29yLy9nsQCFZcdgQoddjgAfg
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
flash7210 wrote:
I ordered my studs from here:
http://lightningmotorsports.com/i-309359.aspx?gclid=CO29yLy9nsQCFZcdgQoddjgAfg


Thanks for the link, just saved me a bundle!
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Mountainman wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
I ordered my studs from here:
http://lightningmotorsports.com/i-309359.aspx?gclid=CO29yLy9nsQCFZcdgQoddjgAfg


Thanks for the link, just saved me a bundle!


Just remember, it's two boxes per CRD head.
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
haha yeah, thanks. I just almost bought 3 vs 6
Author:  geordi [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Wow, that is quite a savings compared to IDparts and Summit and everywhere else I've seen them. Everyone else is all around $180/case.
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
geordi wrote:
Wow, that is quite a savings compared to IDparts and Summit and everywhere else I've seen them. Everyone else is all around $180/case.


X2, I was so impressed that I bought the 3 sets I needed, and almost bought one more. But, maybe I'll smarten up and quit punishing myself on any more of these :jester:
Author:  geordi [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
You have 4 CRDs right? You ARE one set short, and it is just a matter of time.
Author:  dirtmover [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Hey, why don't you just get yourself a 5th one and then you can then do them all with 9 sets and not have any spares left over.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Well, I already had one set on the bench, and sold the two extras from it to another lost member :5SHOTS:

I do have 4, or 3.9 as I completely parted one and gave the body away. I had robbed so much from it (do to my daily driver eating a huge buck at 60 mph), and thought the engine was toast, but it was just rockers plus the balancer smacking around by one bolt :banghead: Now I check the balancer bolts on a CRD first thing after I buy it...
Author:  flman [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Mountainman wrote:
Well, I already had one set on the bench, and sold the two extras from it to another lost member :5SHOTS:

I do have 4, or 3.9 as I completely parted one and gave the body away. I had robbed so much from it (do to my daily driver eating a huge buck at 60 mph), and thought the engine was toast, but it was just rockers plus the balancer smacking around by one bolt :banghead: Now I check the balancer bolts on a CRD first thing after I buy it...


I have 2 extras left if any one needs them?
Author:  rob40wilson03 [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Hey guys, I don't spend a ton of time on this forum, but I've seen a lot of talk about the ARP studs. So much, in fact, that searching to find what I need is tough. So can somebody point me to a thread that explains the reason for the ARP studs, and a DIY link?

Much appreciated! I'm building a to-do list for the Jeep because when my new car comes in, I'm going to park the Jeep in the garage and get a bunch of stuff done on it in my spare time. Perhaps the studs will be replaced if I decide it's necessary.

Thanks!
Author:  geordi [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Where are you located? If you haven't done the timing belt job before, you may elect to have someone experienced help you with the risky stuff.

As for the reasons for the studs, the short version is that the factory head bolts suck and the studs prevent head gasket leaks from the laminated steel gasket. If you don't already have a head gasket leak, it is really just a question of when, not if. The studs correct this problem.

Other strongly suggested mods:
The "Weeks elbow kit" which completely removes the EGR system from causing problems, and makes the reassembly suck a lot less after doing the head studs.
Possible that the rockers will need to be replaced.
The Green Diesel Engineering Eco tune, which has many benefits.
Modifying the fan shroud, cutting it below the mounting tabs and throwing away the bottom half. The top becomes a safety cover.
Etecno glow plugs
Samco / Mishimoto / IDparts silicone boost hoses (pick one)
IDparts airbox to turbo hose - the factory hose will have failed.
The alternator clutched pulley has probably failed, and the pulley will need to be replaced. It can be removed without sacrificing the entire alternator.

The main thing - THE TIMING BELT! The kit from IDparts has all the parts you will need, the default Graf water pump is the best option, the VM version is more expensive and lower quality.

Most of the parts on this list are available from IDparts.com and I can do the work for you, if you aren't confident or posessing the specialized tools and experience to do the timing. It is a tricky job if you've never done it before.
Author:  rob40wilson03 [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
I'm in Charlotte, NC. I have this thread going already for a list of stuff I want to do. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81465 Timing belt was done about 10k miles ago by a local shop that I trust entirely (and I'm normally a skeptic, haha).

Thanks for some more ideas!

How involved is the task of replacing the studs? Is it basically all the same disassembly work as replacing the timing belt?

As for the alternator, I replaced the whole thing with a remanufactured unit from AutoZone because the shaft was slightly bent, no idea how it happened but it was starting to make my serp belt squeak and drove me nuts.

Thank you sir!
Author:  geordi [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
The shaft of the alternator most likely wasn't bent, the clutch had failed and the outer shell of the pulley had gotten out of balance with the inner parts. Very common.

As for replacing the studs, it is far more than just the timing belt job. The timing belt can be done in about 3 hours the way that I do it (factory process minus the useless steps) but the head studs are a solid 9 hours to do. All the timing components have to come off, then the fuel rail, injectors, wiring, CCV, sensors from the top of the valve cover, then the intake arm has to be detached... THEN you can finally lift the cover itself. Its a pain in the arse.
Author:  rob40wilson03 [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Haha yeahhhhh that sounds like something I'm not going to do myself.

But now I'm disappointed that I replaced the whole alternator! The shop that does work for me sometimes [the owner] said he suspected it was bent, and when I took it off and did the replacement, it sure seemed that way. But what you said makes sense. Oh well it works fine now. Only slight pulsation of the headlights at idle sometimes but I'm not worried about that.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Pulsing headlights is a bad sign - Does the new alternator have a plastic cap on the front of the pulley or can you see a really big hex socket on the front? If not - You don't have a clutched pulley, and the alternator will destroy the serpentine tensioner in short order.

Trust me on this, it WILL HAPPEN unless you have the proper pulley on the alternator. I replaced the entire unit too when mine failed, and the first option I was presented didn't have the right pulley either.

The headlights should be on steady, if you have a volt meter connected up, you will see the voltage pulsing very rapidly between like 14 and 16 volts because the alternator can't "let go" in between the pulses.

The other possibility is one of the diodes in the alternator itself is bad. But pulsing power is bad for your electrical system anyway. This vehicle does not have a voltage regulator that can be replaced, it is computer-controlled PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) that creates the power by rapidly switching the alternator on and off.
Author:  rob40wilson03 [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 for 4! ARP's... WARNING
Apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread...

Geordi, the alternator has the plastic cap on the front, just like the OEM had.

Thanks!!
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