CRD Long Crank Time - Cold Start

mountain_rig · **Joined:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:56 am **Posts:** 6

Hello, looking for some ideas for cold start issue. I have searched a lot of the other threads and am now reading the same threads over again for Cold Start Issues and EGR issues, but not finding a solution.

The issue I am having is that when the temp is around 50F (which doesn't seem that cold) it can take several seconds of cranking to start. If its colder it can take even longer. One time at 30F it took 8 cranking attempts to finally start. I will also get a puff of white smoke which is proportional to the amount of cranking time (3-4 seconds of cranking time = small puff of smoke......8-10sec of cranking time=more smoke).

Steps Taken So Far:
1. ORM - 4 months ago
2. 2nd Generation Fuel Filter Housing Installed - 4 months ago
3. 100k service - 3 months ago
4. Weeks intake elbow kit (as I understand lots of issues are caused by EGR). I really like the new intake but it did not have any affect on the cold start - 1 month ago
5. Installed new Etechno 7V Glow plugs (which I found out that the old ones I replaced were already Etechno 7V) - 1 month ago
6. New 800 cca Lead Acid Battery (read a thread about replacing Redtop Optima) - 2 weeks ago
7. Dropped off for 2 days at Jeep Dealership #1, technician was frustrated cause he couldn't find anything wrong, he said it might be my aftermarket glow plugs aren't compatible with the Jeep System. At least they didn't charge me $. - 1 week ago.
8. Dropped off for 2 days at Jeep Dealership #2, technician was focused only on the fault codes (P1140 ). He said he could not troubleshoot any further until I bring him the rest of the intake parts (FCV and EGR tube that I removed for intake elbow kit) so that he can test the EGR. He said that even with the EGR not connected to the intake that if the EGR is struck open that it could cause hard starts - which deosn't make sense to me. Charged me $150 and could not reproduce a list of what components they had checked, just kept talking about fault codes.

Also: when I plug in the block heater overnight, it starts like a champ!

Could a disconnected EGR Valve still cause cold start issues? If not that, what else could I try. The Jeep technician didn't think it could be anything in the glow plug system because they should generate a fault code (I'm not convinced). Anyway I'd appreciate any help with this issue. Going on a road trip to the southwest next week and would love to have a happy Jeep for that.
:ALONE:

Thank you in advance!

mountain_rig · **Joined:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:56 am **Posts:** 6

.....and I forgot to mention: 2005 Jeep Libby CRD, 103k miles. Purchased OCT 2014 w/ 96k miles

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 pm

Could be air in fuel system???
Have you tried pumping up the fuel filter head pump before attempting to start? If it requires more than one or two pumps to get it tight, you most likely got an air leak. :idea:

If you pump it up manually and it starts normally, you have found your problem!
Add an in tank lift pump and for get it! There are many posts of instructions on how to install and wire one up. One of the better mods I done to my CRD.... :wink:

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:46 pm

Check this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81130

I don't exclude air in fuel but also an egr stuck open can cause hard starts. With weeks elbow and no tune you'll get the fcv error code which I don't remember which is it... I believe gmctd posted a list of mil codes in the tech Crd forum, check input and save it as it is useful.

mountain_rig · **Joined:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:56 am **Posts:** 6

WWDiesel: I will try to bleed the fuel filter housing tomorrow morning (while its cold) before I start it and see if that helps.

thermorex: I'm not too worried about the fault codes and am waiting for funds to get a GDE tune to solve the CEL. What I'm wondering though, is whether or not the EGR valve being stuck open can cause a hard start if I have bypassed the EGR with the weeks intake elbow. I thought that if I bypassed the EGR then no matter how broken the EGR valve is, it shouldn't affect anything.

Thank you both!

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:08 pm

mountain_rig wrote:

WWDiesel: I will try to bleed the fuel filter housing tomorrow morning (while its cold) before I start it and see if that helps.

thermorex: I'm not too worried about the fault codes and am waiting for funds to get a GDE tune to solve the CEL. What I'm wondering though, is whether or not the EGR valve being stuck open can cause a hard start if I have bypassed the EGR with the weeks intake elbow. I thought that if I bypassed the EGR then no matter how broken the EGR valve is, it shouldn't affect anything.

Thank you both!

You are correct about the egr valve being blocked by the plate from weeks kit, I am not sure though how computer can react when it sees something wrong with it... Some other people are more appropriate to comment on this matter. Regarding the tune, I'd highly recommend the gde tune, but till you get the finances to do it, try yeti's tune from Crd tech forum, it's free but you'd need a programming box, wwdiesel can give you more details on this as he is a big fan of that tune

.

mountain_rig · **Joined:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:56 am **Posts:** 6

This morning at 51F I primed and bleed the fuel system. The first time I opened the bleeder air came out. The second time was a mix. And the third time was all fuel. The crank time was the same about 4 seconds (which I know doesn't sound like that long but it is...especially for 51F).

I just realized that I missed an important piece of information yesterday when I posted this thread.....IF I PLUG IN THE BLOCK HEATER OVERNIGHT IT STARTS LIKE A CHAMP.

Any more ideas?

dh100m · **Posted:** Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:08 pm

my thoughts go to glow plugs how long do you leave it on before starting try at least 15 sec as plug are on after all bells go off
can you read codes will tell you a lot is your battery good

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:45 pm

Several things:
If plugging in the block heater cures your starting problem? Time for some new glow plugs I would suspect...
If you have the Weeks kit, EGR function and OBC interaction to the missing EGR valve is a non-issue other than an DTC (check engine light) a Yeti tune will cure this!
I ran with the EGR valve & cooler completely gone (Removed from motor) for months before the Weeks kit even became available with no start issues of any kind. :mrgreen:

As others as stated, do your motor a big favor and get the correct Yeti tune and save yourself a lot of money that you can spend on other things. All you need is a laptop and a communication dongle cord that can be purchased on eBay for less than 25 bucks...and you get improved power and better fuel milage with the re-flash...
:wink:

mountain_rig · **Joined:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:56 am **Posts:** 6

dh100m: I usually wait a few seconds longer for the red dot light to go off (the glow plug light only comes on for a second or so). I will try waiting 15 seconds tomorrow morning and see if that helps. Also, I installed a new battery about a week ago. Thank you

WWDiesel: I've read the Thread about the Yeti tune and it looks cool. I'm slightly reluctant as I'm not that techy and am worried about messing it up. Is it pretty easy?
Also, I replaced the glow plugs about 1 month ago. I have not replaced the glow plug controller or the relays, though. The new glow plugs are 7V Etechno. Thanks again.

The only fault codes I have are:
P0102 - MAF Sensor (unplugged MAF for ORM)
P1140 - EGR (due to bypassing EGR Valve)

mountain_rig · **Joined:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:56 am **Posts:** 6

Oh yes, and just to clarify....plugging in the block heater does solve the problem. Much of the time I am not able to plug it in. Especially on the upcoming road trip to the desert.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:48 am

mountain_rig wrote:

WWDiesel: I've read the Thread about the Yeti tune and it looks cool. I'm slightly reluctant as I'm not that techy and am worried about messing it up. Is it pretty easy?

I too was a little apprehensive at first, but there were a couple of very helpful persons on this forum that helped and guided me through the whole process the first time. Turned out, it is very simple!!! Only takes about three minutes to copy OBC OEM files, before first re-flash. Then another three minutes or so to load new tune on OBC. Reflashed OBC over a half dozen time now when testing different tunes before sticking with the Stage IV Hot Tune. :-)r

Biggest techy item is loading the software on a laptop and learning how to use it. Several on here can guide you through that process.... :SOMBRERO:

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:15 am

mountain_rig wrote:

Oh yes, and just to clarify....plugging in the block heater does solve the problem. Much of the time I am not able to plug it in. Especially on the upcoming road trip to the desert.

What I'd do in lack of other ideas, I'd take out the plug #1, which is the easiest, connect it with the harness as it is when mounted (you may need to ground it), turn the key on and see how hot that glow plug gets. I one haven't heard the glow plug relay can cause the glow plugs to not heat properly, but that doesn't mean it can't happen... If the glow plugs does seem to heat enough (the glow should be an orange-yellow) then you should do a compression test.

Btw, how's the battery health and what capacity? If you can, a short movie with the jeep starting won't be a bad idea.

CRD4U2 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:36 pm

Just for personnel info, if you have bad compression, would you see the same problem everytime you start it, even with the block heater? Mine does the same thing, with white/blueish smoke, run not to good for 5-10 seconds(depending on weather), I have to give it some gas(1000 rpm) to clear everything and it runs fine after. It got better with the GDE tune, but still have problem. I used to have a VW TDI 2001 that smoked blue on start up and the mecano told me it was a valve leaking oil, can this be true and can this happen in a CRD?

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:03 pm

sorry to hear, i have same issue , i did lots of work to find this problem , all the fuel related updates . injector fuel return test done , in tank pump , oem fuel filter housing [no air!!] new 7v gp new batt 800cca , guy that works for dodge , he hooked up scan tool to monitor fuel rail pressure all in specs , i wouldn't change any parts untill we find exactly what is the problem

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:51 pm

CRD4U2 wrote:

Just for personnel info, if you have bad compression, would you see the same problem everytime you start it, even with the block heater? Mine does the same thing, with white/blueish smoke, run not to good for 5-10 seconds(depending on weather), I have to give it some gas(1000 rpm) to clear everything and it runs fine after. It got better with the GDE tune, but still have problem. I used to have a VW TDI 2001 that smoked blue on start up and the mecano told me it was a valve leaking oil, can this be true and can this happen in a CRD?

A compression is worth if you already eliminated all other possible issues, like fuel delivery (this includes air in fuel, injector health, fuel leaks, fuel pressure), air supply (clogged air filter, clogged intake, air valves, etc). Your rockers may be worn and they may not open the valves well enough. The glow plugs may not work properly. Do you start easier with the block plugged in? Also, to verify the heater, it should go about 1/8th on the coolant gauge when the temperatures are not too cold. There can be lots of things quite honestly and you should go through the list eliminating them one by one. Typically blue smoke is burned oil, white smoke can be impartial burned diesel or water (distinguish by smell), or, when very cold outside, just condensation which is still water but that doesn't mean it's bad, black smoke is too much diesel that does not burn entirely (like "coal burners" have).

CRD4U2 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:16 pm

Thanks for the info Thermorex. I will be getting to all those when the snow starts to melt.

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:48 am

CRD4U2 wrote:

Thanks for the info Thermorex. I will be getting to all those when the snow starts to melt.

Good luck and keep us posted!

KC-CRD · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:20 pm **Posts:** 47

Since the block heater seems to resolve all the starting issues, the glow plug system would have to be the primary suspect. I haven't had to do any work on my CRD's glow plugs, but on my Powerstroke I have spent a great deal of time working on them. It is also a sub 40 degree heater baby. You can check the voltage at the electrical connector on the glowplugs. I'd check the connector at each glowplug to verify the relay and the harness. If you are not getting voltage you either have a relay problem, a bad harness or the ECU doesn't think heat is needed.

You should also be able to verify the glowplugs by checking resistance. You'd have to check the specs on yours to find out what the appropriate value is. Remove the harness and check resistance between the glowplug and the block.

Keep in mind that the glowplugs aren't going to heat for very long. So it's really a two-person job without doing some serious cabling to get your meter where you can see it from the driver's seat. And depending on the ambient temperature, you might have to let things cool of in between voltage tests.

alin.neag · **Joined:** Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:37 am **Posts:** 2

Have you ever figured out the cause of the problem?
I have the same symptoms at cold start. The compression is OK, the glow plugs are new (the stock model).
It is possible to suspect a bleeding injector? It mai cause a rich diesel mixture?

CRD Long Crank Time - Cold Start

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