Thought you guys might have an interest in this: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-engineer.html

The logic based on economics does (unfortunately) make sense. 30% increase in MPG is useless when diesel is 25-40% more than gas, depending on time of year. Yes, I know for towing/torgque/etc. diesel has advantages, but it is hard to justify the added expense for the diesel engine in a tacoma/tundra.

The mpg on my Tacoma replacement for the Liberty has always sucked, but at times in the winter it has been better than I got w/ the Jeep.

If I was buying another car right now I would not buy a diesel as long as prices stay where they are. And according to Exxon Mobil's business plan for the next few years, they dont expect the prices to change much.

Oh wait, I did just buy a car. F150 Ecoboost. I completely ignored the ram ecodiesel because it isnt worth it both from a cost and performance perspective. The ecoboost will lay waste to the diesel in that truck and pretty much any other motor in a 1/2 ton short of maybe chevy's 6.2L.

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2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

The only diesels worth money under today's conditions for me are the old ones. Or, for business use 1/2+ ton pickups

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

Ram eco-diesel is right out for me, I won't even consider it.

Why? Mopar. No more Mopar for my family, EVER. The only way I will ever own another Jeep or Mopar product... Is if someone GIVES it to me. The only and sole exception for this, would be a classic Willys Jeep - but those don't really qualify as either a Mopar product or a daily driver. It would strictly be a toy.

Looking at possibilities for the future, I cannot see myself doing much other than an electric car like a Volt. The towing capabilities aren't my primary thought anymore, and realistically, the Volt can pull just as much as my TDI, and it can do it in electric mode. It would also let me experiment with my ideas of electric motor propulsion and diesel as a generator-only option, rather than as a motive powerplant for the vehicle.

My VW TDI wagon has 325,000 miles on it at the moment, and is running strong. The only weakness is familiar to this group, the transmission. At some point I will need to address that, but I'm still getting 30+ MPG without trying, so I'm not worried about that. When it needs to be replaced, then I'll look around. Unfortunately, the EPA is getting their way and driving diesels out of the marketplace with all the economy-sucking add-ons that they are forcing to combat problems that don't really exist. Too bad.

Maybe the new Nissan with the Cummins diesel will be a viable option when they finally hit the showroom in 16???
Do not want another VM diesel; way to many issues and horror stories already out there on the new Dodge 1/2 tons with that motor....
These environmental treehugger people are totally strangling any new diesel motors that hit the market to death just like what they are doing to the coal fired power plants.... gggrrrr
We all are going to be sorry one day.....

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Say what? Coal fired power plants deserve to be controlled and regulated to clean their emissions. If just ONE coal plant was required to reduce its pollution to the level that current diesels are required to be at, something like 3 million vehicles (worth of emissions) would be permanently removed from the environment.

Now multiply that by the staggering number of coal plants in this country - last time I looked it was like 540 or so... We could all be driving John Deere tractor diesels and not make a dent in the environment!

Then there is a story I just saw today from yesterday's Rachel Maddow show, where there is an ammunition propellant disposal problem in Kentucky - the contractor has gone out of business, leaving 18 MILLION POUNDS of this hazmat just laying around in an open field. The EPA came up with a brilliant idea to get rid of it: Just burn it openly in shallow trays!

This is the same EPA that wants to further restrict the motoring public, but avoids doing REAL CHANGES to the environment by restricting heavy commerce or the military's disposal problems... Rather, they are willing to actively ADD to the air pollution with that idea. Stunning.

I agree with you as regards the polluting coal-fired power plants. Here in South Africa we have one Nuclear Plant in the country while the rest are coal-fired as we have plenty coal here. At the moment we have blackouts commonly throughout the country due to the power grid being overloaded....the proposed solution is signing up with Russia to build us many more Nuclear plants at a major price tag....this while SA gets nearly as much sun as Australia does!

I am very happy with my 2002 2.5 CRD which should hopefully last me for the rest of my life but if it was stolen or written-off I would not touch another diesel vehicle or anything made by Chrysler/Fiat...probably get a small electric car and make use of those Russian Nuclear Power Plants!

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

Don't you know already that most of epa policies are based on scamming the people into believing the global warming theory? I do agree though that "coal burners" and polluting just because you can is silly, but from some common sense measures to go to the other extreme (and only for some people, not for all) is ridiculous. Oh, the carbon credits are another nice touch... Truth is that earth is moving towards a glacier period and they need to move fast, till the scam can be still believed. Lots of money to be made with scare tactics.

Regarding military pollution, I kind of agree with that, on the top of being always on alert for IEDs, all you need is to stop and fill your dpf or the truck will stop by itself or replace the stuck egr valve...plus it would add billions to the already huge dod budget.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

I'm not talking about pollution controls or mufflers on the military vehicles themselves - that is where we agree, they need to be able to GO when they need to go.

The military uses some really really nasty things in their arsenal, both as propellant and as the weapon itself - Previous policy until the last 70s was called Project CHASE: Cut Holes And Sink Em! They put the chemical weapons (sulfur mustard agent, agent orange, etc) into containers, cut holes in the sides, and DUMPED THEM IN THE OCEAN!

I'm going to disagree with your position about the "falsehood" of the EPA and global warming however. I've lived in the same climate since I was young enough to remember, and even within my own lifetime, I've seen the climate and weather patterns change in this area. It hasn't gotten colder, far from it.
Summer is MUCH hotter than it used to be, the summer rain patterns are starting later and later each year (and one year they didn't even happen at all!) and the hurricanes that have formed and thankfully not hit Florida, have been larger and more severe.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and 99% of actual scientists say it is a duck... I guess it's a bear?

The Army IS trying to clean up its fleet.
Electric motors are a lot quieter than diesel engines

Also GSA, the organization that supplies civilian vehicles to the military on CONUS installations, is taking away almost all the gas guzzling Suburbans and Tahoes. Only O-7 and above get to ride in a Suburban. They are being replaced with Tauruses and F-350/450/550 Powerstrokes.
In my motorpool there is one Suburban scheduled to be replaced with a F-450.
Two older '07 F-450s will be replaced with '15 F-550s.
One '05 Chevy 3500 Dmax to be replaced with a F-550.
And two older GMC 6500 trucks will eventually be replaced with ???

Regarding Military chemical dumping...

Yup, a lot of nasty stuff was dumped way back when and private industry was doing it too.
Still, there are several installations that will never be closed, buildings that will never be torn down, and land that man will never set foot on again because those sites are far too contaminated to be cleaned up.
On the other hand, chemical stock piles at Johnston Atoll and Aberdeen Proving Grounds have been safely and cleanly disposed of and those chemicals are no longer a hazard to the environment.

Regarding global warming, global cooling, climate change, or whatever...

crap's gonna change whether we like it or not. Maybe its all the fault of modern humans, maybe not. It really doesnt matter.
If you have the intelligence to adapt and change with it, please ensure your genes get passed on to future generations. If not, stop reproducing.
The dinosaurs lacked both the time and intelligence to adapt to their rapidly changing environment. Lucky for us humans, we have plenty of both.

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U.S. Army Retired

Geordi, not trying an argument with you, there were severe storms, unusual weather changes all over the history, since they started to track the weather. If you really need bullet proof data I'll google few and post links. There is zero proof that global warming happens to begin with, more so that is done by pollution. I am not talking global warming considering normal weather cycles. I am talking global warming as the idea media is selling us as "omg, we all gonna die, the ice is melting, no more food, etc.

And I'll state again, I am not for encouraging pollution at all. I don't know where you lived, but I can say that the places I've lived have no change in the weather. This winter for example was a very cold one here in north east. Is that because global warming? I'd say it's normal to have cold winters, colder some years and warmer some other years. But connecting carbon with global warming is just without any scientific proof. And about scientists... Look who's financing them, either directly, either through donations to non profit. Look who they are working for. There is unfortunately nothing independent anymore. Look at Monsanto lobbyists, they shut down anything against the giant corporation, their lawyers make bankrupt the poor farm guy that doesn't want to use monsantos products. Just google. This is not to say Monsanto is overall bad, they brought some super intelligent innovations. But they, and others like them, are ready to walk over dead bodies of they have to, to protect their interests. What is the "carbon credit" bs? If that's not a scam, then I don't know what it is... So you can pollute but you pay extra? And who pollutes less can sell their credits? This is pure business, nothing to do with "let's be green and protect the planet". The sponsors of the global warming theories (which global warming brings billions to some folks - btw, lots of taxes are collected from almost any product, from oil to electronics, that includes this carbon tax bs- which does nothing to lower pollution btw) definitely need some backup evidence, so if the studies of those "scientists" prove the contrary, you'll never hear about them. And honestly, do you really believe everything the media tells you? Same big corporations in their backs, news that are against those corporations or don't favor them never see the air time. It's indoctrination that has been happening for decades, from gun control, food, global warming, news media, etc. and there are many people that either lack the time to do their own research, either don't care, either are just to plain dumbed down to think on their own. Time for everybody to open their eyes and take everything with a grain of salt and most importantly think on their own or at least check the sources of whatever crazy theory they hear.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

From my perspective, no diesel Taco or RAV4, and I won't buy Toyota. One of the reasons I haven't bought a new vehicle is the bizarre approach that car companies in the US have taken. Many of the vehicles we drive are offered in other markets with diesel engines. But because EPA regulations don't match with European standards (some times more strict, other more lax), the manufacturers don't want to certify for our market. Some have been reluctant simply because CARB splits the US into two markets.

When they do offer diesel options they want to put them in the most expensive trim packages. Look at the Grand Cherokee. I looked at the RAM 1500 and I could spec a 2015 at $33k, which is acceptable. But no dealer would ever stock it because it's Tradesman trim and they generally only stock that package in white. So a 6-8 week lead time to order. In the end I chose not to buy because the RAM is too big for the parking places in the garage at work. It would be a daily frustration with people parking too close. So it could never be my daily driver.

I use my Liberty (with 172k miles) as a DD and I'm quite happy with it. I have a daily 85 mile commute. I do keep my S10 as a backup, but not because of the CRD. I keep the Chevy on deck because I'm relying on a 10 year old vehicle as my DD. I also like traveling in the Liberty. The small turning radius and maneuverability suits my wandering travel tendencies. (more than once I have headed west with no particular destination in mind) Yes, there are some expensive repairs (particularly since the previous owner neglected a lot of maintenance/repairs), but compared to having payments and higher insurance, they really aren't that bad. Fortunately I have the option of doing most of the repairs myself.

On the global climate change debate I'll keep quite. You either believe the science or you don't. For pollution though there are plenty of other reasons to want to reduce it. But one thing that has never made any sense to me is the EPA focusing so much on cars while ignoring power plants. To me it makes much more sense to address stationary polluters before adding weight, complexity, and lower fuel economy to vehicles. Having said that, I don't miss the lead or the sulfur that has been removed from fuels.

I don't miss the lead or the sulfur either - but you hit upon the primary point: Those changes happened at STATIONARY SOURCES rather than on an individual vehicle level. You can't put sulfur or lead into the environment if it isn't in your fuel to begin with.

This should be the continuing focus, but the EPA is playing to the least-educated out there (many of them probably on the CARB board!) by stating that SOOT is a diesel problem. EVERY form of combustion from a campfire to an engine to a power plant are all creating soot. It is just carbon that can't be burned. DIRT. The stuff of life. The problem is the size of the particles. Gasoline engines (in their opinions) don't create soot... Just because it can't be seen. This is just junk, but until the EPA starts using actual science in their pursuit of something more than protecting their own jobs, the transport sector will continue to be abused by bad policy.

The pollution issue is more complicated that we like to believe. It's not only from our vehicles or from our energy company, it's also the garbage, the farts, etc. to properly address those things, you need to pollute more. Like all those electric cars that create the "good feel" you're not burning oil, those have batteries that pollute a lot to produce. Or the pollution costs for solar panels. If you ride a horse, that also pollutes. The whole idea is to come up with some common sense rules that we all need to agree upon as a human society, and those ideas should exclude lobbyism, particular interests, etc. I mean who likes the typical coal burner truck from 60-70s? Or pollution that can set a river to fire? No sane person would. But from this to selectively have rules for some and not for others, or to try making money using scare tactics like global warming and coca-cola teddy Bears that are dying, that's the issue.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.